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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

Do they close highways if it is not used much? No, they don't. Do they cancel a city bus route if it has low ridership? Not usually.

Maybe a smaller bus should be used. Maybe the schedule is the problem. Maybe it was not something that was needed. It seems odd to just cancel the service.
 
lenaitch said:
In the release, the CEO mentioned that "tracks were removed". I wonder what she is referring to, unless it is connecting tracks in NB that saved to train from having to run through the yard to get from CN to ON trackage.
The Northlander consist was similar to the Polar Bear Express; former GO single levels with APUs for power. I can't imagine they sold them. I have an acquaintance who works for the Commission and can ask.
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That must be what's being referred to, since as far as I know (and would imagine) the Newmarket Sub is unchanged since then, and of course there can't be any problems with the Bala Sub through Washago. In NB as far as I know the right of way is intact and the rest of the connecting tracks are still used as an industrial spur, so I don't think it would cost much or be very difficult, but would require negotiations with CN.
 
micheal_can said:
Do they close highways if it is not used much? No, they don't.
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Uhh, the east end of the Gardiner Expressway?

It's not common, but it most certainly does happen.

micheal_can said:
Do they cancel a city bus route if it has low ridership? Not usually.
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All of the time. Just in Toronto there are tons of routes and branches of routes that have been cancelled over the years due to low ridership.

micheal_can said:
Maybe a smaller bus should be used. Maybe the schedule is the problem. Maybe it was not something that was needed. It seems odd to just cancel the service.
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A smaller bus isn't going to drastically change the economics - most of the cost of operating a vehicle like that is the driver.

Dan
 
The now former route was a big circle on an island with a population of about 13,000. A lot of the route was on secondary highways, and I recall reading that it had to be altered because of a bridge loading issue. Without sufficient subsidies, I can imagine the service was difficult to justify. I would imagine running a small orphan fleet of small buses would be costly. Hopefully, the recently announced partnership with a local company will work out.
 
smallspy said:
Uhh, the east end of the Gardiner Expressway?

It's not common, but it most certainly does happen.



All of the time. Just in Toronto there are tons of routes and branches of routes that have been cancelled over the years due to low ridership.



A smaller bus isn't going to drastically change the economics - most of the cost of operating a vehicle like that is the driver.

Dan
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A smaller bus doesn't require a B or C licence - a D, E or F licence is probably sufficient, so the driver can be paid slightly less (that's one reason why Kasper is able to make a go of some of its routes). Smaller buses mean less fuel. I was surprised to find out the new ONTC bus on Manitoulin Island went so far out: that's a long, lonely route. The old service just went to Little Current and Mindemoya, rather than do the entire loop on Highways 540, 542, and 6.
 
Allandale25 said:
Not directly on the topic of this thread but there's been some comments here before on Ontario Northland getting involved in this line.

www.thesudburystar.com

'It’s time to get this done'

New owners of Sault-to-Sudbury line will want government support, former Sault mayor says
www.thesudburystar.com
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This is the one time I hope Dougie can deny them anything. They went into the sale with the attitude that the government must give them money. If that is the only way this line can be profitable, then it should be government owned and run.
 
micheal_can said:
This is the one time I hope Dougie can deny them anything. They went into the sale with the attitude that the government must give them money. If that is the only way this line can be profitable, then it should be government owned and run.
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I absolutely agree, I think having a vehicle like ONR gives a great way to effectively nationalize lines like this. Lots of the small towns along here had daily or better passenger service in the past and today are situated along a pretty deadly northern highway that's served to decimate their downtowns and businesses. If that line is owned by the province then the odds of eventually seeing passenger service again go up, IMO. Having random rail companies own it with huge government subsidies does nothing to create stability and just facilitates wealth transfer from public to private coffers. Unfortunately this is one of Doug Ford's favourite things so I wouldn't hold out much hope.
 
While I can see ONR being the contracted service provider, it likely doesn't take away from the apparent need for infrastructure investment - by Brookfield or whoever. ONR would also need to negotiate running rights over the OVR unless they operated a stranded service which would really complicate things like staffing, maintenance, etc. As far as I know the ROW is still owned by CP.
 
lenaitch said:
While I can see ONR being the contracted service provider, it likely doesn't take away from the apparent need for infrastructure investment - by Brookfield or whoever. ONR would also need to negotiate running rights over the OVR unless they operated a stranded service which would really complicate things like staffing, maintenance, etc. As far as I know the ROW is still owned by CP.
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CP does still own the 2 lines. Even if the ONR operated the HCR as a stranded service, it would still do well. They likely could have some agreement to be able to bring HCR equipment to the North Bay shops for maintenance. However, long term, both HCR and OVR CP lines should be owned by ONR.
 
micheal_can said:
CP does still own the 2 lines. Even if the ONR operated the HCR as a stranded service, it would still do well. They likely could have some agreement to be able to bring HCR equipment to the North Bay shops for maintenance. However, long term, both HCR and OVR CP lines should be owned by ONR.
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Nothing that can't be solved by tax dollars.

With a stranded service, you have complications with crews and tie up equipment. Moving equipment between the the two parts would require running rights over OVR or pay them to move it. I have not heard anything publicly about G&W wanting to divest OVR. To buy, you need a willing seller.
 
lenaitch said:
Nothing that can't be solved by tax dollars.

With a stranded service, you have complications with crews and tie up equipment. Moving equipment between the the two parts would require running rights over OVR or pay them to move it. I have not heard anything publicly about G&W wanting to divest OVR. To buy, you need a willing seller.
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But they don't own the line - CP does. CP could be convinced to sell it easier.
 
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