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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

I guess that depends on how they envision any potential service would be run. They've been using them as-is for the time being with no issues.



This is a good question. Maybe I need to read through the report again, but I didn't see anything about how they would configure the equipment for such a service.



I'm fairly certain that those sleepers have long since been scrapped. If they are somehow still around, they would now have been sitting for about 26 years, and so would need a LOT of work.



They did have a lot of issues getting them into service, but they seem to have managed to correct all of them.

As for how they were built, they removed the original EMD prime mover and alternator (and air compressors, and radiators - basically leaving the shell completely empty) and fitted a small skid-mounted diesel engine and alternator that is better configured for this kind of service.



I can't see training being a game-breaking activity, especially since the cabs of these things are configured almost identically to three-quarters of ONR's existing fleet. It is more likely that much of the original equipment required for operating them/a train was fitted into the two units from their days in service with Amtrak is still there, but has not been touched in many years (or has even been cannibalized) - which is why they can't be made to lead right now. But again, that isn't a big deal for the forces at the North Bay Shops.



It's not overly onerous, no. But there are rules around it, and there are certain things - brake tests, for instance - that are required of the process. There is absolutely a time factory to take into account, too.

The equipment all has to be marshalled together in such a way to allow the passenger cars to have power. Whether that means all of the coaches at the back or at the front is less important.

What may be more important, however, is how it is marshalled vis-a-vis switching operations at one end or the other. There is lots of room to maneuver at Cochrane, so I suspect that the orientation of the cars doesn't matter so much. But at Moosonee, I don't believe that the run-around track is long enough to handle more than a pair or trio of locos, so to save time for everyone it may make most sense to have the freight located on the tail end of the train. That way the locos pull into the station, cut off of the train, run around to the back, and grab the freight cars to bring them to their set of tracks for unloading.



Running the power around would imply that they would (likely) require a pair of locos to run the train, which seems excessive and a huge waste of resources. At the same time, I don't think that building a wye is such a bit deal/cost - keep in mind that it doesn't need to be located right at any potential terminus - there is no reason why they couldn't build one at one of the mine spurs.

Dan
There are a couple of different YouTube videos that show this type of set-up (power-freight-pax-freight), so it seems this is typical. Most of the clips are n/b out of Cochrane. I could find only one s/b out of Moosonee and it was similar, with freight at the front (but no freight behind the pax cars).


There obviously must be a reason; operational/dynamic, marshalling, etc.

There is a wye just back from the speculated end-of-track at Hoyle (near Kidd) but it very short - power only at best - and it appears no where to grow. There is also a wye at Moosonee (caveat - I don't know if any of this is in-service, just going by Google). As far as I know, the pax cars are left at the station in Moosonee while the freight goes off to it various destinations (chain cars to a ramp siding, etc.), then the train is rebuilt for the s/b trip. As far as I know this is done by the running crew during the layover period - I don't think there is a yard job.

Yes, dual power for the size that the Northlander will likely be seems excessive, and they ran the former service with one. I guess it remains to be seen what type of equipment they end up using. Egad - T&NO cars from the '40s!?
 
In Cochrane, they still have some of the old T&NO equipment. Reality is, if they want the sleepers to be ready for the start of the train, there would be a movement to bring them to the North Bay shops where they can refurbish them.
None of the former T&NO equipment exists on live rail. If you're thinking about the two or three pieces that are located on display at the Cochrane Station, none of those are sleepers. They're also historical artifacts, and not suited to being used in revenue service.

There are a couple of different YouTube videos that show this type of set-up (power-freight-pax-freight), so it seems this is typical. Most of the clips are n/b out of Cochrane. I could find only one s/b out of Moosonee and it was similar, with freight at the front (but no freight behind the pax cars).
I don't know about typical, but yes, they do absolutely do this. I think the reasoning is that the cars way at the back are set out along the way, whereas the ones towards the front are destined for Moosonee.

But also note that the EGU is located at the end of the cut of passenger cars. The freight cars don't have the ability to pass-through HEP along the train (or MU, or COMM).

There obviously must be a reason; operational/dynamic, marshalling, etc.
Marshalling. The main dynamic forces at the speeds that this train travels at are not significant - or at least not significant enough to have to worry about it.

Dan
 
None of the former T&NO equipment exists on live rail. If you're thinking about the two or three pieces that are located on display at the Cochrane Station, none of those are sleepers. They're also historical artifacts, and not suited to being used in revenue service.
I did not know they were removed from a live track. My point is that there are lots of the older coaches, some of which may be old sleepers in the Cochrane yard.
 
I did not know they were removed from a live track. My point is that there are lots of the older coaches, some of which may be old sleepers in the Cochrane yard.
None of that is suitable to be used for revenue service.

The only equipment that ONR had - the Green-series sleepers that they bought from VIA in 1995 - are long, long gone.

Dan
 
^ But don't they simply have to in order to fulfill their promise? Surely ONTC has already told the Minister this. I guess they could buy used stuff.
 
Given the province's target of 'mid-2020s' for reinstatement, I'm not sure a federal Request for Information - which is the first step in a multi-stage process - will be responsive enough. We don't know if the ONTC has already started a process or if they are planning to re-furb current equipment. The numbers required are quite small.
 
^ But don't they simply have to in order to fulfill their promise? Surely ONTC has already told the Minister this. I guess they could buy used stuff.
They can use the old stuff in their yard for the train's return. Also, this order likely won't be filled for a few years, likely after the train comes back. That doesn't mean they can't ask for some coaches and sleepers and dinning cars to be added to the order.
 
Given the province's target of 'mid-2020s' for reinstatement, I'm not sure a federal Request for Information - which is the first step in a multi-stage process - will be responsive enough. We don't know if the ONTC has already started a process or if they are planning to re-furb current equipment. The numbers required are quite small.
I thought all of the ex GO coaches are rebuilt? And the legacy cars are retired?
 
I thought all of the ex GO coaches are rebuilt? And the legacy cars are retired?

A handful (10 to 15?) of bilevels were sold to someone in the USA (Utah? Texas?). The rest of the bilevels have been refurbished as needed, though the original 1970's ones must be approaching their end-of-life due to frame fatigue soon.
 
A handful (10 to 15?) of bilevels were sold to someone in the USA (Utah? Texas?). The rest of the bilevels have been refurbished as needed, though the original 1970's ones must be approaching their end-of-life due to frame fatigue soon.
I meant the ex GO coaches. The single level ones that ONR owns.
 

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