Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[micheal_can]

Fair point about the connecting track - provided somebody is willing to pay for it. As for the downtown VIA station, it is my understanding that is only for the Sudbury-White River train. In the context of the post (off topic I admit) that suggested the Canadian re-route via North Bay, as far as know the Canadian stop is Sudbury Junction.

And Capreol. Leave it on that route. However, a Sudbury - North Bay train might work, but the track is in too rough of a condition for any meaningful speed.

 

[tmlittle]

The PBX is a mixed train with flag service. I would imagine trying to coordinate two trains that wouldn't leave passengers stranded in a kiosk wouldn't be well received. As well, the chain cars for vehicles need off-loading facilities. Pulling the PBX all the way into Timmins (S. Porcupine) would really raise the infrastructure costs.

I would think the costs to upgrade the track and wayside facilities between North Bay and Sudbury would not be cheap, including no connecting track between CN and OVR. There is no longer a station in North Bay on that alignment.

Ironically, the lack of a ROW having a lot to do with the ex CN ROW being handed to developers under Fedeli as mayor.

 

[OntarioOnTheMove]

Genesee & Wyoming suspends plan to terminate Sault-Sudbury freight service

With government funding talks going well, short-line railroader will maintain service - for now

www.northernontariobusiness.com

 

[Northern Light]

Genesee & Wyoming suspends plan to terminate Sault-Sudbury freight service

With government funding talks going well, short-line railroader will maintain service - for now

www.northernontariobusiness.com

If we're going to heap buckets of cash out of the treasury to sustain this track/service, I'm not sure why we shouldn't just buy it/take it over.

I'm all for sustaining this track and service; I just want maximum bang for the buck.

I would love to see a comparison of costs if the service were operated by Ontario Northland instead.

 

[micheal_can]

Ironically, the lack of a ROW having a lot to do with the ex CN ROW being handed to developers under Fedeli as mayor.

The Old CN line goes to Capreol, not to Sudbury.

 

[ShonTron]

Fair point about the connecting track - provided somebody is willing to pay for it. As for the downtown VIA station, it is my understanding that is only for the Sudbury-White River train. In the context of the post (off topic I admit) that suggested the Canadian re-route via North Bay, as far as know the Canadian stop is Sudbury Junction.

Sudbury Junction, yes, with the servicing stop in Capreol to the north.

In the 1980s, VIA ran a train from Toronto to the Downtown Sudbury station to connect with the Vancouver-Ottawa-Montreal service via CP, with a bus connecting Sudbury Jct and Capreol for those looking to take the CN route.

 

[PinkLucy]

I used to take the Sudbury to Toronto and vice versa train frequently in the early 80s

 

[Northern Light]

I used to take the Sudbury to Toronto and vice versa train frequently in the early 80s

I had no idea you travelled so much as a pre-teen.

 

[micheal_can]

The reason Sudbury isn't part of this is because, as horrible as it is, Sudbury does have train service.

 

[Allandale25]

Election promise to restore Northlander during first term in office was 'hollow electioneering' says NDP

'Clearly, the Northlander was never a priority for Doug Ford, Vic Fedeli, and the Conservative government'

www.baytoday.ca

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The reason Sudbury isn't part of this is because, as horrible as it is, Sudbury does have train service.

Honestly, if Ontario Northland WERE to get into east/west service I see very little purpose in doing it without going all in and restoring a full Ottawa Valley corridor and taking over Algoma Central... Which I'd be wholly in favor of honestly.

 

[tmlittle]

Honestly, if Ontario Northland WERE to get into east/west service I see very little purpose in doing it without going all in and restoring a full Ottawa Valley corridor and taking of Algoma Central... Which I'd be wholly in favor of honestly.

I'm being pessimistic here, but something tells me the ball will eventually get dropped on the HCRY and it'll be abandoned, maybe once G&W loses one or two more freight customers. I couldn't imagine being a freight customer at this point with the constant wavering. Nowadays we rarely see anyone go out on a limb like this for plans like the NEORN 3-line loop. However if the line sticks around a bit longer and passenger service returns to NB, who knows? It would be a much stronger position for it. I feel like the main obstacle at that point would be CP not wanting more traffic in downtown Sudbury accessing the station.

 

[kEiThZ]

Election promise to restore Northlander during first term in office was 'hollow electioneering' says NDP

'Clearly, the Northlander was never a priority for Doug Ford, Vic Fedeli, and the Conservative government'

www.baytoday.ca

The Northern Ontario version of HFR. A plan to study how to study something by a future date.

 

[reaperexpress]

Well at least the good news is that they're talking about overnight service from Toronto to Timmins, rather than trying to replace or compete with the existing bus service. That sidesteps the issue that the train would be slower than the current buses (barring unrealistic upgrades), given that the train would run would run a different time of day, and overnight trains basically get an 8-hour "freebie" while passengers sleep anyway.

Toronto to Timmins would make an ideal overnight route from a distance perspective (750 km by rail), the question is whether those relatively low-income northern communities bring a large-enough market for relatively-expensive sleeper tickets. Probably not, I'd say, but there might be a latent market for tourists heading up north. Budget-conscious travellers may still prefer taking a 12h train ride in Economy where they can sleep 8h, than a 10h bus ride during the day. I wonder if introducing airline-style lie-flat business class seats would provide a viable middle ground between economy class and private rooms.

Although it would be politically unattractive, it would make most financial sense to just run express from Washago to Temiskaming Shores, stopping only at North Bay (since the station already exists and the city is quite big). There's no way it's worth the cost of rebuilding the abandoned stations and then continuing to pay to operate and maintain them, just for one train per day which runs in the middle of the night. Even if the new service did stop in those places, virtually everyone heading to/from those communities would likely continue taking the bus service which is faster, and not in the middle of the night.

To cover Toronto-Timmins in 12h, the train only needs to average 63 km/h.

 

[micheal_can]

Honestly, if Ontario Northland WERE to get into east/west service I see very little purpose in doing it without going all in and restoring a full Ottawa Valley corridor and taking over Algoma Central... Which I'd be wholly in favor of honestly.

Same here, but the work involved would be quite high.

I'm being pessimistic here, but something tells me the ball will eventually get dropped on the HCRY and it'll be abandoned, maybe once G&W loses one or two more freight customers. I couldn't imagine being a freight customer at this point with the constant wavering. Nowadays we rarely see anyone go out on a limb like this for plans like the NEORN 3-line loop. However if the line sticks around a bit longer and passenger service returns to NB, who knows? It would be a much stronger position for it. I feel like the main obstacle at that point would be CP not wanting more traffic in downtown Sudbury accessing the station.

I don't see that happening. All the existing businesses need rail for their good, otherwise things get really expensive,