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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation
- Thread starter CDL.TO
- Start date
dowlingm
Senior Member
If ONTC was tasked with rebuilding a corridor between Mattawa and Ottawa and it stayed on the Ontario side, that would not be a federally regulated track... right? This from the Railway Age piece:
lenaitch
Senior Member
You could be correct, however my opinion carries a big caveat. I've never been quite clear on the issues of federal/provincial regulation as opposed to incorporation. It is my understanding that a shell company (for want of a better word) called the Nipissing Central Railway allows the ONR to run into Quebec to Rouyn-Noranda.
Such a "tasking" would have to be accompanied by a cheque with many zeros and I doubt it would financially justifiable for low-frequency passenger-only service. Additionally, the only 'all-Ontario' route from Mattawa is the former CP ROW and it runs to Smiths Falls, not Ottawa; although that does link it to Via-Ottawa. I have no idea of the ownership status of the Mattawa-Ottawa ROW.
micheal_can
Senior Member
There is still a need for freight to go West to Montreal. If the ONR got the HCR and OVR, you have a few spots to pick up traffic bypassing Toronto.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Eastbound freight goes through Toronto . Both CN and CP demonstrated their need for their Ottawa Valley routes by abandoning them, much like CN abandoned its 'northern' route through Cochrane into Quebec many years ago. Remember that a lot of freight traffic comes from the west via the US.
micheal_can
Senior Member
They save money by not running that way. They already run south, so to take all traffic to Toronto, and then moving it east, it saves them money. Money like maintenance, train crews and other costs for that line.
robmausser
Senior Member
This is how I would envision a usable Northern Ontario return for train service, between cities with somewhat decent populations. (in green)
This route would hit all the major cities of Northern Ontario.
While the portion before Thunder bay is CPR track, and thus would need some negotiation with CPR, the rest is mostly Branch track. This would mean upgrades would be needed to the rail to bring it up to passenger spec, but at least there would be much less freight traffic to contend with.
This route would hit all the major cities of Northern Ontario.
While the portion before Thunder bay is CPR track, and thus would need some negotiation with CPR, the rest is mostly Branch track. This would mean upgrades would be needed to the rail to bring it up to passenger spec, but at least there would be much less freight traffic to contend with.
micheal_can
Senior Member
This is how I would envision a usable Northern Ontario return for train service, between cities with somewhat decent populations. (in green)
This route would hit all the major cities of Northern Ontario.
While the portion before Thunder bay is CPR track, and thus would need some negotiation with CPR, the rest is mostly Branch track. This would mean upgrades would be needed to the rail to bring it up to passenger spec, but at least there would be much less freight traffic to contend with.
And if they were able to keep it within an hour on time, ridership would happen.
lenaitch
Senior Member
This is how I would envision a usable Northern Ontario return for train service, between cities with somewhat decent populations. (in green)
This route would hit all the major cities of Northern Ontario.
While the portion before Thunder bay is CPR track, and thus would need some negotiation with CPR, the rest is mostly Branch track. This would mean upgrades would be needed to the rail to bring it up to passenger spec, but at least there would be much less freight traffic to contend with.
Nice dream. It would be interesting to see if passenger volumes would justify it. It would be a very long trip. I imagine CP would be as amenable to more passenger trains (Via 'Superior' already runs Sudbury to White River) on their mainline as they are about adding them around Toronto.
jys
Active Member
micheal_can
Senior Member
ShonTron
Moderator
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Because that is a route that was dominated by Greyhound. As Greyhound continues to cut service, ONTC is stepping in, as they did on Highway 17 between Sudbury and Ottawa.
lenaitch
Senior Member
The way I understand it, ON will only go as far west and White River and connect with an enhanced NW Ontario operator (Kasper). I can't recall if they are planning a similar link-up along the Hwy 11 corridor but that may be coming. The issues with expanding ON itself into the northwest and on to Wpg include satellite management and supervision, shops, crew management, etc.
micheal_can
Senior Member
So, somewhere like Thunder Bay becomes a hub for them.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
This idea of bringing back the Ontario Northland is lunacy. Just because some politicians {with their eyes on the next election} says "build it and they will come" doesn't make it so. Ontario, of all places, knows the dangers of letting politicians set transport policy.
SSM, NB, and most smaller centres in Northern Ontario have shrinking population and a meandering train won't make any difference. Even the 2 largest centres of Sudbury and TB are just holding their own. Why in God's name would someone take the train to Toronto when they could fly or drive on the greatly improved highway system? They are trying to get ridership from a population that no longer exists. There are precious few transport dollars as it is and the last place it should go is to ultra low ridership routes.
SSM, NB, and most smaller centres in Northern Ontario have shrinking population and a meandering train won't make any difference. Even the 2 largest centres of Sudbury and TB are just holding their own. Why in God's name would someone take the train to Toronto when they could fly or drive on the greatly improved highway system? They are trying to get ridership from a population that no longer exists. There are precious few transport dollars as it is and the last place it should go is to ultra low ridership routes.