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Ontario Budget Cut and Transit Expansion

I'm wondering if the province consulted with Smitherman before making this move given that he is pretty much the candidate to beat in the election. SMitherman might have given the okay because he might have felt these plans weren't going to happen under his watch anyways. If we want to be even more conspiracy-ish, I wouldn't be surprised if the province announces funding for Eglinton after Smitherman champions the need for the line, thereby making him look like the guy who saved at least the biggest part of Transit City. If I'm the province, considering they're all buddy-buddy with Smitherman, I wouldn't want to start things off by pissing him off by pulling significant amounts of funding from out from under him. So I can't imagine him not knowing of this in advance.
 
Sorry to say (because I've said this before), but this is just another example of why we need consistent reliable OPERATIONAL funding from upper levels of government. Given that GO and TTC has somewhere near an 80% fare to operational cost recovery ratio while other agencies are down near 50% or less; this is the biggest gaping hole, bigger than any missing transit line, in this region's and country's transit policy. Let each agency figure out which and how to build it's infrastructure but make sure that the have funding that they can rely on. These infrastructure funding announcements make for nice camera time and media coverage but they are just as easily taken away.
 
leopetr said:
Except that it wasn't.
$4b was cut of the $9b alloted to Metrolinx for all the projects. Now, Metrolinx has to decide what to build, what to postpone, and what to cancel.
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Exactly. NOTHING has been formally cancelled at this point, and even then, the wording of the budget is "delay", not "cancel".
 
Justin10000 said:
You're nuts.

Any chance of subway expansion is effectively over if much cheaper LRT lines are being "delayed".
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The point is that it won't be a complete $1b waste of money and instead an opportunity to build a subway in the future. And LRT money could take Sheppard pretty far.

In other news, FFFFUUUUUUUUU-
The politicians of the world actually astound me. This is what we get for en masse bailing out the auto companies, an industry that was failing and will continue to fail in the future, instead of something that would have a longer timeframe to kick in, but would last for at least a century. Why didn't the government think about all the opportunities for immediate jobs made through infrastructure building, of which we've got dozens of plans across the country just waiting for government funding, and then the the secondary jobs coming through transit drivers and administrators and a more immediate transit vehicle industry, which not only was not failing spectacularly, but could have met that increased demand using the auto factories left behind by the Big 3 going down the hole?

And if that was unavoidable, couldn't the government think about the future? I know everyone's freaking out about the deficit, but cutting back even these projects indefinitely, which will result than an even higher transit deficit than if they did get built and we had to rebuild them in 20 years. The region needs transit funding, and a balanced spreadsheet would never trump that.

This is protest worthy, imo.
 
Second_in_pie said:
The point is that it won't be a complete $1b waste of money and instead an opportunity to build a subway in the future. And LRT money could take Sheppard pretty far.

In other news, FFFFUUUUUUUUU-
The politicians of the world actually astound me. This is what we get for en masse bailing out the auto companies, an industry that was failing and will continue to fail in the future, instead of something that would have a longer timeframe to kick in, but would last for at least a century. Why didn't the government think about all the opportunities for immediate jobs made through infrastructure building, of which we've got dozens of plans across the country just waiting for government funding, and then the the secondary jobs coming through transit drivers and administrators and a more immediate transit vehicle industry, which not only was not failing spectacularly, but could have met that increased demand using the auto factories left behind by the Big 3 going down the hole?

And if that was unavoidable, couldn't the government think about the future? I know everyone's freaking out about the deficit, but cutting back even these projects indefinitely, which will result than an even higher transit deficit than if they did get built and we had to rebuild them in 20 years. The region needs transit funding, and a balanced spreadsheet would never trump that.

This is protest worthy, imo.
Click to expand...

It's easy to cut projects that are city-centric, and I agree, it is time for a protest for Transit.
 
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I find the elimination of bus replacement funding to be more disturbing than the cut to transit expansion funding.
 
I think (/hope) "delay" is they key word here. These are long term investments, with fairly long-term capital costs. These construction costs are spread over 5-10-15 years, and a complete economic cycle (and several changes in government) can take place over that time. Hopefully Metrolinx understands this, and goes ahead paying down the costs are most likely to inflate. None of these projects really rely on each other (except maybe Jane needing EC-LRT). So I say stay the course, take whatever money they'll give and start the lines as best as possible. Essentially, I'm saying Metrolinx should show some balls, confident that the funding will return..don't just settle for the most 'affordable' lines.
 
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Perhaps the whole paradigm of using yesterday's tax money to build infrastructure that will benefit people in the future is flawed. Think about it this way: how many people pay fully for their new house before they move in?

Metrolinx should take out a big fat mortgage, or let a private firm build and own the infrastructure. Then pay the private owner based on ridership. That way investments will only go to places with high rider potential.


Does anyone else agree?
 
jn_12 said:
I'm wondering if the province consulted with Smitherman before making this move given that he is pretty much the candidate to beat in the election. SMitherman might have given the okay because he might have felt these plans weren't going to happen under his watch anyways.
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Um, no.

George is no longer in Cabinet, and not even a MPP anymore. So he wouldn't be privy to that. It's doubtful that David Miller was given much, if any, notice.

Budget secrecy is a fairly big deal.

Justin10000 said:
Any chance of subway expansion is effectively over if much cheaper LRT lines are being "delayed".
Click to expand...

Yup. Next window for a new subway line opening is the late 2020s or early 2030s.
 
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