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Ontario Budget Cut and Transit Expansion

This back and forward discussion of how broke Toronto is so blame it on Queen's park is what has got Toronto into the fix its in.
The really pathetic thing is that by 2013 this thread will still be up and running to make suggestions and/or bitch about Queen's Park but by then citizens of a third world county city, Bangalore, will be getting onto their new 58km Monorail system.
There is NO reason why Toronto couldn't do the same and more.................how pathetic.
Toronto is getting what it deserves. All the money in the world wouldn't make a dent in Toronto's inertia.
 
ssiguy:

Actually, you should look into how other jurisdictions fund their transit system (who pays for it, what roles does the regional/national government and in some cases supranational government) as well as the capacity of the municipality to raise revenue before saying that "Toronto deserves it".

AoD
 
I think the NDP is the party to vote for in the next provincial election because I think they are most likely to fund transit then the other parties.
 
Here's a thought, let's forget about begging for transit money from the senior levels of government. They don't care particularly and the image of giving money to the universally despised TORONTO is an image they don't want noticed in TROC. It is time to grow up and take ownership of this part of our city function.

Raise my municipal tax bill by 10 or 15% and pay cash for all the transit infrastructure as it is built and adjust the fare to cover operation costs. Riders can save evidence of fares bought and receive a partial rebate from the City if they can prove residence in Toronto. Taxpayers pay for all other services provided by the City, why not transit?
 
While I may accept a increase in property taxes to pay for public transit (as long as it is no higher than the rest of the GTA), I think a better way would be a ½% to 1% city sales tax, which is what the cities in the United States do to get funding for their transit projects. Another would be a electronic road toll on the Gardiner Expressway and Don Valley Parkway, but with a rebate for vehicles registered in Toronto (TTC and transit buses, school buses, and emergency vehicles would be exempt [except for the OPP]).
 
It's no wonder the province decided to cut funding for transit, especially to Toronto. Cutting Toronto's transit funding was 100% politically savy and expedient.

We have a lame-duck mayor, whose whining about what was promised was just sad to watch on television yesterday, and a TTC-chair who's lost in corruption and disarray. But most of all, the one thing McGuinty knows, and knows very well, is that no matter what he does or does not do, Toronto will always vote Liberal. You going to vote in Hudak and the Harris-like PCs or another NDP Rae-type disaster? I didn't think so, and neither does Dalton.

So, you've got mediocre leadership in the city, and no political risk for the premier. It's the perfect storm. The new mayor will inherit this mess.
 
spider said:
Raise my municipal tax bill by 10 or 15% and pay cash for all the transit infrastructure as it is built and adjust the fare to cover operation costs. Riders can save evidence of fares bought and receive a partial rebate from the City if they can prove residence in Toronto. Taxpayers pay for all other services provided by the City, why not transit?
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Taxpayers are paying a lot for transit now. If city revenues jumped because of your proposed property tax hike, the unions, and especially the police board would take almost of it in pay hikes. Until Toronto gets its police expenditures under control, there will be no money for anything else.
 
W. K. Lis said:
While I may accept a increase in property taxes to pay for public transit (as long as it is no higher than the rest of the GTA),
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What relevance do the tax rates of other GTA municipalities have? Different cities run things differently and answer to their own citizens. There need be no correlation in tax rates only a need to show their own constituents are getting value for money.

One example that comes to mind....Mississauga owns a bunch of municpal pools and offers swimming programs at a fee. The bulk of Toronto's pools are in schools and are run, then, out of the school board. This is not to debate which is the "right" approach but just to show that municipalities run things differently and will have different impacts on the municipal tax bill.

Maybe a more germane example......Mississauga chooses to have a surface only transit system and Toronto chooses to have a subway mixed with surface transit.....obviously the cities are different so their choices are influenced by that but so is the impact on the tax roll......

....there is no reason that tax rates in different municipalities need be at all related to each other.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Is that what the last Ontario NDP provincial government did?
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That was their plan but, by sheer coincidence, every "write a cheque to fund transit" day fell on a Rae day so there was no one around to write the cheques.....but they really, really, meant to fund transit.
 
GraphicMatt said:
Following on what urbandreamer said, here's what I'm thinking: unicorns. We all get unicorns and ride them to work. For males, blue unicorns. And for the ladies? Pink. With a side saddle, of course.
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His plan is kinda whacked out, but the government should literally stop pointing their guns and allow for competition.

The TTC sucks at keeping fares low and quality high. Sucks for people with low income and unfortunately there ain't alternatives for similar municipal transit.

A mobster-style monopoly enforced by violence isn't the ideal model for transit lol.
 
urbandreamer said:
But I would have a pay-based-on-income for all public (well the ttc would be privatized of course....) services. Everyone would have an i.d card tied to their income level. Say you make $30k salary--then you'd pay $3/token. $60k--$4/token.
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Income-based fees together with progressive income tax system would create too much insentive to understate one's income. People will try to operate as a business and write off expenses; incorporate and split income with family members; or work a 9 to 5 official job, never try to get a rise, but seek a side source of unregistered cash income.
 
Rainforest said:
Income-based fees together with progressive income tax system would create too much insentive to understate one's income. People will try to operate as a business and write off expenses; incorporate and split income with family members; or work a 9 to 5 official job, never try to get a rise, but seek a side source of unregistered cash income.
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Aside from the other obvious reason....a ride on the subway is a ride on the subway and should cost the same to everyone.
 
Yoshimura said:
His plan is kinda whacked out, but the government should literally stop pointing their guns and allow for competition.

The TTC sucks at keeping fares low and quality high. Sucks for people with low income and unfortunately there ain't alternatives for similar municipal transit.
Click to expand...

I thought most people grew out of their silly libertarian phase, but okay. Here's the thing: we can talk about outsourcing labour to private companies. That's not a bad idea and it's almost inevitable these days.

But we can't talk about some kind of free market transit system with competing lines zipping all over the city. There are very few cities in the world that have the kind population density to even begin to make such an arrangement work. No private business would want to do it in Toronto unless heavily subsidized, and even then there's no way they'd be interested in anything but the high ridership, short-distance routes.

There's a tendency for internet pundits to wave heir hands and ascribe simple solutions to incredibly complex problems. There is no simple solution in the case of transit. Nothing is going to drastically lower your costs. It's something that requires a major long-term sustained commitment from a level of government that collects a significant portion of tax revenue (ie. in our case not municipal).

We almost had that. Now we've lost it.
 
TOareaFan said:
Aside from the other obvious reason....a ride on the subway is a ride on the subway and should cost the same to everyone.
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So, wait, there's no net economic benefit from making it easier for low income people to be more mobile? You don't see how that creates economic activity and jobs?

Transit isn't just a convenience thing. It's vital to urban economic growth.
 
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