OneCity Plan

[gweed123]

Our current anti-transit mayor would not be supporter nor a cheerleader for OneCity. We may have to wait until we get a pro-transit mayor to be a public transit cheerleader and only after the regime of our current anti-transit mayor has ended.

I say, for the time being, focus on the B-D extension and the DRL, and then get the rest of OneCity (or a similar plan) rolling in 2014 when hopefully a more transit-friendly mayor is elected.

Squeeze what we can out of the current political situation (which is far less than ideal), and then push for more when we have people in office who actually want to push.

The B-D extension only needs an extra $400 million, which shouldn't be the end of the world to fund from general city revenues. Get the DRL EA started, because it's going to take at least a couple years to finish. By that time hopefully we'll have enough adults in charge to actually have a reasonable discussion on how to fund it.

 

[MafaldaBoy]

Here is Jim Jones' presentation on the I-METRO-E plan (known as the Scarborough Express line on OneCity):

http://www2.markham.ca/markham/ccbs...t Services/pl120501/I-METRO April 12,2012.pdf

 

[datamouse]

The Scarborough Subway is probably the child of De Baeremaeker and not Stintz. It's his ward and crowding on the SRT is an issue for voters. Hell the whole plan is pretty much an amalgam of different ideas from different people. Sheppard West is in there for Pasternak, the rail corridor plan is from Jim Jones of Markham, and even the CVA uplift idea was part of a KPMG report.

I also find it amusing how now there's talk of the city fronting money to get the Scarborough Subway going but during the debate over Sheppard it was anathema to talk about the city paying a dollar more for the hybrid solution to Vic Park.

 

[rbt]

I also find it amusing how now there's talk of the city fronting money to get the Scarborough Subway going but during the debate over Sheppard it was anathema to talk about the city paying a dollar more for the hybrid solution to Vic Park.

Ford didn't want the city paying a dollar more for subway to Vic Park. He wanted the subway for free.

If the main advocate for a project isn't willing to pay for it then why should anybody else?


At least in this case someone who wants something done is also saying they're willing to pay for it.

 

[k10ery]

If anything, it proves that we as a city aren't willing to spend money on subways.

Well, that's what I hope it DOESN'T prove. After all, Transit City shows we are willing to have our provincial taxes raised to pay for transit, so why not city taxes too?

Like datamouse said, B-D extension was probably for Glenn de B. There was way too much pork barrel in the plan, all in all.

 

[rbt]

Well, that's what I hope it DOESN'T prove. After all, Transit City shows we are willing to have our provincial taxes raised to pay for transit, so why not city taxes too?

Even Perks and Vaughan spoke poorly about raising property taxes for transit without considering other options first which included waiting for Metrolinx to move first. When the pro-transit people are in favour of deferring, something is going on.

The financing report begins preparation this fall. I originally though it was to be delivered in the fall, not started. This puts a decision on an actual funding strategy immediately before the 2014 election campaigning begins. That's a pretty dangerous time to be raising taxes for a politician when results are not expected for a few more years.

Best time to raise taxes is immediately after the election so you can pay for results that show up just before the next one.

I don't think we will get dedicated TTC expansion funding out of Toronto unless it is via referendum.

Like datamouse said, B-D extension was probably for Glenn de B. There was way too much pork barrel in the plan, all in all.

Perhaps. But it's looking like council will endorse the plan (chunks of it at least) and defer the funding discussion.

 

[BurlOak]

Not sure it is a flip-flop. Ford's Sheppard debacle wasn't about the SRT in anyway.

That said, the big reason for not supporting Sheppard subway (extension to Vic Park is all Ford was offering) was money.

Stintz said "we can build all this" for 2% more money. It looks like council is generally saying NO to the 2%.

If anything, it proves that we as a city aren't willing to spend money on subways.

Although Ford talked about Sheppard, I believe that the Motion in Council in February called for
"the Scarborough RT conversion to LRT from Kennedy Station to Sheppard Avenue" - http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...upplementary_Reports/Presentation_LRT_Pro.pdf. I also beleive that both Stintz and De Baeremaeker supported this.

I am not saying that Ford was right, but that Stintz has had a significant change of heart in just a few months and that affects her credibility.

Stintz did not talk about a 2% increase, she had 2% ($68) the first year, another 2% the next (4% total), etc. It just allowed the issue to be completely (and deliberately) dissunderstood by many. How about we create a chess table and ask taxpayers to pay one cent in the first month, 2 cents in the second month, 4 cents in the third months, 8 cents in the fouth months, etc until the chess table is filled. That way for just pennies a month we could have full transit funding. It should have been sold as a $272 tax increase for 30 years, but phased in over the first 4 years.

 

[gweed123]

Although Ford talked about Sheppard, I believe that the Motion in Council in February called for
"the Scarborough RT conversion to LRT from Kennedy Station to Sheppard Avenue" - http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...upplementary_Reports/Presentation_LRT_Pro.pdf. I also beleive that both Stintz and De Baeremaeker supported this.

I am not saying that Ford was right, but that Stintz has had a significant change of heart in just a few months and that affects her credibility.

Stintz did not talk about a 2% increase, she had 2% ($68) the first year, another 2% the next (4% total), etc. It just allowed the issue to be completely (and deliberately) dissunderstood by many. How about we create a chess table and ask taxpayers to pay one cent in the first month, 2 cents in the second month, 4 cents in the third months, 8 cents in the fouth months, etc until the chess table is filled. That way for just pennies a month we could have full transit funding. It should have been sold as a $272 tax increase for 30 years, but phased in over the first 4 years.

Yes, this was included in the motion in February. Along with the financing motion, and the motion to study the DRL.

 

[BurlOak]

Yes, this was included in the motion in February. Along with the financing motion, and the motion to study the DRL.

True there was a motion to study the B-D extension to STC. Based on what study did she add it to the OneCity plan? I do not think any study was completed.

P.S. I do think it makes more sense than tunnelling under Eglinton East (including the Don River) or tunnelling on Sheppard from Vic Park to STC.

 

[rbt]

"the Scarborough RT conversion to LRT from Kennedy Station to Sheppard Avenue" - http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...upplementary_Reports/Presentation_LRT_Pro.pdf. I also beleive that both Stintz and De Baeremaeker supported this.

I am not saying that Ford was right, but that Stintz has had a significant change of heart in just a few months and that affects her credibility.

Yeah. Cho brought up a number of SRT extensions but I don't recall anybody (on either side) bringing up a different option for the SRT.

Here are the Sheppard debate motions.

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAge....CC20.1&utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=

Not certain it is a Stintz flip-flop but I'm still not particularly in favour of a BD extension. SRT has capacity for 30+ years and $400M could buy a ton of articulated buses and service to go with it.

 

[Solid Snake]

As I'm watching the live stream:
http://www.rogerstv.com/page.aspx?lid=237&rid=16&sid=1030&lve=29936

-It seems OneCity is dead in the sense of the era of having politicians drawing transit maps is officially over.

-Now every past transit plans will be review, every revenue tools will be explored and it's the TTC that will get to draw the map and council will vote on it in October. Finally, NO MORE politicians drawing maps!!!

-Byford and TTC will get to review everything and come up with a 30 year plan based on their data and the priority order on the corridors their expertise say it should be ...

-De Baeremaker is getting cooked for his "flip flop specifically on the SRT change of technology and trying to reversing Council's decision in February. He's just trying to save his skin anyways. Some councillors are annoyed that the SRT was not discussed in February

-Which opens a pandora box for other LRT lines. City manager said if you are going to change your mind on existing line "do it ASAP and be prepare to pay penalties". He brought up the deadline of Spring 2013 for the City to make their definite plan and submit it to Metrolinx. Anyone knows about that?

-A consultation process will be establish in every communities where people's feedback will be heard. A councillor conveniently reminded council that Miller and Giambrone wanted none of it for Transit City

Besides Eglinton underground portion, everything is back on the table...again

Still in progress...

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/11/council-poised-to-derail-onecity-transit-plan
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...members-back-away-from-sweeping-onecity-plan/

 

[Hipster Duck]

There were two parts to One City, one I think is very important, and the other which I think was useless baggage that ultimately served as an anchor to sink the plan.

The important part was to start a dialogue on how to pay for transit expansion. Had Stintz and De Baeremaker focused the discussion on the rate of property tax increase (or other fiscal tools) and the timeframe for implementation, and left the drawing of lines on a map alone, I would be much more supportive. The trouble is that they had to marry what could have been a very worthwile discussion on financial tools to every politician's wet dream of planning where routes would go. Of course, planning routes by drawing lines on a map sure is fun - witness how almost all of the debate in this thread was on the selection of routes and not on the tax policy - but Solid Snake is right: suggesting routes and technologies is a job that politicians need to be pried away from, no matter how much of a photo-op, publicity stunt, or fun job it is.

 

[innsertnamehere]

listening to it, it seems that the B-D extension to Sheppard is now off the table..

 

[Solid Snake]

listening to it, it seems that the B-D extension to Sheppard is now off the table..

on the contrary, EVERYTHING is back on the table.

-Mammoliti got Adam Vaughan to reluctantly admit that the motion does not stop Sheppard or Finch to be upgrade to Subway

-Stinz just said that the February transit vote was based on the provincial funding at the time. She said "from her own mouth" that when they agree on a funding plan, they will be able to build a better transit plan based on TTC numbers and recommendations.

Who knows what we'll get in October. Isn't Byford biased for subways?

 

[innsertnamehere]

east bayfront passes, with both fords voting against it.. what a surprise...