OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

[TrickyRicky]

freshcut, there is the option to pay higher tax in a box at the end of your income tax form . Casinos fit in with the current zeitgeist, namely, it was discovered that choice and freedom are the best form of authoritarian control. That said, I still am not opposed to casinos.

 

[TOareaFan]

Haha... You consider Woodbine the boonies??? I'd hate to think what you would say abou Guelph. You do know that Etobicoke which is about 10 minutes away from downtown is a district of Toronto right?

What method of transportation are you using that gets you to North Etobicoke/Rexdale (which is where Woodbine is) in 10 minutes from Downtown? There are a fair number of commuters that would dispute that travel time

 

[neubilder]

Yes, the Ex is such a prime location - so prime that it is used as parking lots for 9 months of the year. While I don't condone the act of gambling, to call people "zombies" just because they visit one is suggestive of your own personal biases more than a supporting argument.

The Ex grounds are prime central near-waterfront and have the potential to be (and ought to be) the formal gateway to Canada's largest city. The grounds are underutilized as their fate has yet to be decided. To call the ex grounds a dead zone and suggest that a casino would be an improvement shows a profound lack of imagination.

That's laughable, as if somehow NF is a casino town before the casino opened.

I have no idea what purpose this ill-formed argument serves..

And yes, here are the "prime sites" you mentioned - pay special notice to the wonderful surroundings:

The locations are prime, the casinos are not.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Haha... You consider Woodbine the boonies??? I'd hate to think what you would say abou Guelph. You do know that Etobicoke which is about 10 minutes away from downtown is a district of Toronto right?

Errr... yeah. Royal Woodbine to the Exhibition Grounds is a 25km/25min drive -- further to downtown. People landing at Pearson or folks in Vaughn/Markham might prefer a casino there, but it's not a central location that will draw folks from downtown.

Etobicoke 'is only 10 minutes from downtown' is disingenuous -- the part of Etobicoke you refer to is... basically at the CNE.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

neubuilder:

I don't think casino is the only element of revitalizing the area, just one element of a broader strategy to increase usage. To suggest otherwise is a profound lack of imagination on your part in this debate.

re: locations

Yes, prime - so prime that the extant land use are parking lots (which I am sure replaced some equally prime uses prior). Sorry, address the maps, will you?

AoD

 

[neubilder]

Once a casino goes down there (Ex) it's all over. It's fate is sealed. Before too long it will become a mini Niagara replete with tacky hotels.

 

[neubilder]

neubuilder:
re: locations

Yes, prime - so prime that the extant land use are parking lots (which I am sure replaced some equally prime uses prior). Sorry, address the maps, will you?

AoD

Could you please clarify your point re. the maps. I fail to see the logic in your argument.

 

[MadMax]

What method of transportation are you using that gets you to North Etobicoke/Rexdale (which is where Woodbine is) in 10 minutes from Downtown? There are a fair number of commuters that would dispute that travel time

Ok, i may have exaggerated a little bit but the 427 is right beside Woidbine and it takes me about 5 or 6 minutes to get to park lawn and lakeshore from there. There is not much traffic going into the city after work...even still, it's not that far.

 

[TOareaFan]

Ok, i may have exaggerated a little bit but the 427 is right beside Woidbine and it takes me about 5 or 6 minutes to get to park lawn and lakeshore from there. There is not much traffic going into the city after work...even still, it's not that far.

You and I are having entirely different road experiences. My daily commute takes me from Dowtown past the airport. I have never been at the airport in under 25 minutes and rarely under 35..most nights from King/University it takes that long to get on the Gardiner...and the thing I note every evening (typically leave the office around 7) is how many vehicles are making the exact opposite trip that I am.

I don't agree with the person that stated Woodbine is the boonies....but there is no value in making equally crazy arguments back.

 

[k10ery]

I think you are missing the point, not Richard Florida.

I am definitely not missing Richard Florida, so I must be missing the point.

So what is the point? Looking ahead at your comments, it seems to me you mostly object to casinos because they are tacky - i.e. bad urban planning. Well, I agree. But lots of people like stuff I consider tacky, and this is a big city, so there is a place to put all that stuff and it won't bother me.

Definitely, a casino at the Ex would not bother me as much as the acres of space there currently wasted on empty parking lots. The parking lots are there, let's not forget, because until 25 years ago people used to enjoy going to the CNE, a tacky but fun source of entertainmment, for 2 weeks a year.

But now they seem to prefer casinos to fall fairs, so why are we wasting money and space on the Ex?

 

[MadMax]

You and I are having entirely different road experiences. My daily commute takes me from Dowtown past the airport. I have never been at the airport in under 25 minutes and rarely under 35..most nights from King/University it takes that long to get on the Gardiner...and the thing I note every evening (typically leave the office around 7) is how many vehicles are making the exact opposite trip that I am.

I don't agree with the person that stated Woodbine is the boonies....but there is no value in making equally crazy arguments back.

Ok, point taken...but what if you were working lets say in Liberty Village and heading to the airport. How long would your commute be? I think a lot of this has to do with what people consider to be Toronto. Toronto is a big city, and a few kilometers inward can make a ton of difference...not in km's but in commute times for sure.

 

[TOareaFan]

Ok, point taken...but what if you were working lets say in Liberty Village and heading to the airport. How long would your commute be? I think a lot of this has to do with what people consider to be Toronto. Toronto is a big city, and a few kilometers inward can make a ton of difference...not in km's but in commute times for sure.

Sure....but your first post defending Woodbine as not in the boonies stated a 10 minute drive to downtown.....since then we have determined that you meant somewhere in Etobicoke is 10 minutes from Liberty Village.

Again, I don't think Woodbine is boonies but....10 minutes from downtown? Never.

 

[MadMax]

It takes 16 minutes to get from Renforth (the Airport) and Roncesvalles Village which I consider Toronto...you should try it on Google Maps, its not that hard. So I wasn't that far off.

 

[Ice_Burn]

It takes 16 minutes to get from Renforth (the Airport) and Roncesvalles Village which I consider Toronto...you should try it on Google Maps, its not that hard. So I wasn't that far off.

Reality rarely bears that out. I used to commute from 427/Rathburn to King/John daily (and back) and the only way you can get those times is if you're speeding and there's basically no traffic, the latter of which is pretty rare these days.

 

[TOareaFan]

It takes 16 minutes to get from Renforth (the Airport) and Roncesvalles Village which I consider Toronto...you should try it on Google Maps, its not that hard. So I wasn't that far off.

Really? You are now defending your earlier erroneous claim?

Renforth is not Woodbine (yes it is the airport but not Woodbine)
Roncy Village (the target has now moved from Liberty Village) is not Downtown.
And 16 minutes is not 10 minutes.

Not sure how two people who basically agree on the original discussion (that Woodbine is not boonies) can get so sidetracked but I guess I started it by suggesting a more realistic time frame of travel than 10 minutes was required. Add, what, 2 minutes to get from Renforth to Woodbine....add 10 minutes to get from Roncy to downtown and your 16 minutes (is it your's or google's because I swear google times in the city are assuming their googlemobile is the only vehicle on the road) beccomes 28....getting closer.

Underestimating travel times is a pet peeve of mine. In the original Pan Am games bid they actually showed the Powerade Centre in Brampton as being within 30 minutes of the Athlete's Village (east of downtown).....now that they have dropped Brampton as a host venue one of reasons given was to better manage travel times and logistics (ie. one of us finally made the drive and, guess what, 30 minutes is impossible)