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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

Thanos said:
Yes because the Montreal casino was nothing more then a cash grab. It serves no purpose as a different source of entertainment for many residents and tourists. Oh btw, this is the same city that has a higher property tax rate then Toronto and a car registration tax, as well as higher user fees for many programs.
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You just contradicted yourself, but anyways, we should pay higher taxes. I would gladly pay higher taxes, certainly rather than being stuck with the embarrassment of having a casino as the gateway to the city, on a prime stretch of the only open waterfront in the city. Not to mention all of the drawbacks associated with a casino.
 
neubilder said:
You just contradicted yourself, but anyways, we should pay higher taxes. I would gladly pay higher taxes, certainly rather than being stuck with the embarrassment of having a casino as the gateway to the city, on a prime stretch of the only open waterfront in the city. Not to mention all of the drawbacks associated with a casino.
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Embarrassment? How so?

I would rather not pay higher taxes. I prefer to keep the money I earn. I know that makes me a capitalist I guess.
 
We already have a casino. A really big one. It's called the Toronto Stock Exchange.
Seriously though. If you want to see how casinos usually add NOTHING of real value to the communities they service go to Niagara Falls New York. What a pitiful site that is. I grew up in that city in the 1950's and 60's when there were real jobs and a real economy. All of the factories are now gone and the city in a desperate attempt to get anything at all going bet on a casino. Check out the results. PS: Bring lots of antidepressants.
 
jozl said:
We already have a casino. A really big one. It's called the Toronto Stock Exchange.
Seriously though. If you want to see how casinos usually add NOTHING of real value to the communities they service go to Niagara Falls New York. What a pitiful site that is. I grew up in that city in the 1950's and 60's when there were real jobs and a real economy. All of the factories are now gone and the city in a desperate attempt to get anything at all going bet on a casino. Check out the results. PS: Bring lots of antidepressants.
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You're comparing Niagara Falls, New York to Toronto??? Come on now. I agree with CN Tower... I would rather keep my money than get taxed to death. We've been getting taxed to death forever now and look where it's gotten us. Finally the city has woken up and looks to try and turn things around, for once not at the peoples expense.
 
The Monte Carlo Casino analogy actually hurts the case for pro-casino fans in Toronto.

1: The casino has been a major part of the culture and economy of Monaco since the 1800's.
2: The casino is part of a high culture complex that includes opera and ballet.
3: The citizens of Monaco are forbidden to enter the gaming rooms of the casino.
 
To add some hard data to this discussion, it should be noted that OLG's "Resort Casinos" (the big facilities like Fallsview and Windsor) actually lost money overall in both 2009 and 2010 (as per page 43 of OLG's annual report).

In other words, adding another casino might cause taxes to go up to pay for its losses.

It should also be clear that the bulk of the revenue from any Toronto casino would go to OLG, and not directly to Toronto. As I understand it, OLG's arrangements with Resort Casinos are to pay the host city a fixed lease; for example, the city of Niagara gets $3 million a year. That's all that the cities get directly from OLG -- they do not get a portion of the revenue produced.

Casinos are not a financial panacea, whatever the pros and cons are otherwise.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Because just how much life is there in the Ex to be sucked out of on a good day?

AoD
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That the Ex stands relatively undeveloped so close to the downtown and right next to the waterfront makes it an extraordinarily rare opportunity to create something great. I would love to see the parking buried and the grounds turned into a huge park incorporating the existing classical buildings. Whatever happens, the Ex grounds are a rare opportunity that needs to be carefully thought through. Any development decisions must be made with the long-term best interest of Toronto in mind, first and foremost. Not the need to alleviate a short term fiscal shortfall.

If it is developed as a casino in a knee jerk cash-grab, the opportunity will be gone. The gateway to Toronto will forever be a glitzy and depressing reminder of how low the city will stoop.
 
Casinos are not a financial panacea, whatever the pros and cons are otherwise.
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That fact doesn't penetrate "the bubble" people like Mad Max are encased in. All they see is the fantasy that they might actually have their taxes become personally self-directed.

You know your city is being run by jackasses when things like casinos, giant ferris wheels and mono-rails are their priority ideas.
 
neubuilder:

What you have suggested is a planning and design issue, not a fundamental flaw with putting a casino at the Ex site per se.

AoD
 
The Monte Carlo Casino analogy actually hurts the case for pro-casino fans in Toronto.

1: The casino has been a major part of the culture and economy of Monaco since the 1800's.
2: The casino is part of a high culture complex that includes opera and ballet.
3: The citizens of Monaco are forbidden to enter the gaming rooms of the casino.
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4: The Fords are not the Grimaldis (even though they act like they are).
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
neubuilder:

What you have suggested is a planning and design issue, not a fundamental flaw with putting a casino at the Ex site per se.

AoD
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There is a fundamental flaw with putting a casino on the waterfront for the reasons I stated earlier, which are planning related.
What is your point?
 
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freshcutgrass said:
That fact doesn't penetrate "the bubble" people like Mad Max are encased in. All they see is the fantasy that they might actually have their taxes become personally self-directed.

You know your city is being run by jackasses when things like casinos, giant ferris wheels and mono-rails are their priority ideas.
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Sorry Fresh, casinos are here to stay. And who says that the new casino has to be a blight on the city? Why can't something nice be built that would attract people not just for the gaming but for shows, concerts, conventions, etc.etc. Chicago which is often compared to Toronto has the third largest revenue annually in the U.S. from it's casinos and it's not really looked at as a big gambling destination even with it's large turnover. We could model ourselves after that, rather than the sleezy side show ferris wheel's that you so eliquently mention. Casinos have been around forever, and the decision has been made. So let's look at how we can make it the best for our city and something we can be proud of.
 
neubilder said:
You just contradicted yourself, but anyways, we should pay higher taxes.
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Please clarify? As stated, the Montreal casino is seen as nothing more then a different source of entertainment.

neubilder said:
Not to mention all of the drawbacks associated with a casino.
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While were at it Mr Holy, let's ban the selling of cigarettes, cigars or any tobacco products. Let's ban the sale of alcohol. Let's also also ban any activity in the TSX or any other stock exchange.

From here on out, not a single Torontonian will be allowed to invest any of his/her moneys in the TSX. (sorry to all those TSX employees, you'll be sorely missed)
 
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