OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

[jaycola]

Cool Renders. I still vote for Downtown.
I think we could give them half of Ontario place to develop if they want to build something like that here. That would save the best parts of OP (The Cinesphere, Amphitheatre and pods) for the province to preserve.
There is a tonne of waterfront left to develop in Toronto. This project will be a small fraction of what we will build over the next 20 years and it won't ruin anything. It will be built with public consultation. It will be just one more reason to visit Toronto.

Maybe this will be a tipping point for tourism, where we see a rapid climb? Choosing a city to visit is a lot about a variety of experiences.
A project like this will bring a lot more to offer than just gambling.

Having a company like MGM or Ceaser's behind the project helps sell it too. Hopefully they will market the hell of it at their other properties.

It would be a good time to push for more year round attractions at the Exhibition grounds. Lease out some of those buildings for commercial purposes.

 

[Markham VIP]

Cool Renders. I still vote for Downtown.
I think we could give them half of Ontario place to develop if they want to build something like that here. That would save the best parts of OP (The Cinesphere, Amphitheatre and pods) for the province to preserve.
There is a tonne of waterfront left to develop in Toronto. This project will be a small fraction of what we will build over the next 20 years and it won't ruin anything. It will be built with public consultation. It will be just one more reason to visit Toronto.

Maybe this will be a tipping point for tourism, where we see a rapid climb? Choosing a city to visit is a lot about a variety of experiences.
A project like this will bring a lot more to offer than just gambling.

Having a company like MGM or Ceaser's behind the project helps sell it too. Hopefully they will market the hell of it at their other properties.

It would be a good time to push for more year round attractions at the Exhibition grounds. Lease out some of those buildings for commercial purposes.

I'm not saying it is impossible for it to work in Toronto....I am saying that you have to be very careful to do it correctly or else you may end up doing more harm than good. I think that Toronto needs to do some studies and take their time with this and do it right. Don't just have some American companies dangle a few billion dollars infront of you and you all get dumbfounded and giddy. Make sure you are smart about it and do it right.

Personally, I don't think that Toronto is ready for THIS casino that the OLG plans to build in the GTA. Instead, I believe that if Toronto gets all it's ducks in a row, then maybe in about 5-10 years it can make a proposal for a second GTA casino on the Toronto waterfront. If Toronto is serious about this, and does it right, there is no way that the OLG would turn them down. That would create a gaming facility in all 4 quadrants of the GTA.

 

[taal]

I think your overdoing the potential demand for casino space in the GTA ... it's honestly not that large. If Markham gets a full size Casino, it doesn't make all that much sense to build another one downtown.

Woodbine is a little bit of a joke in terms of a casino ... okay its has hundreds and hundreds of slot machines.


Markham or Toronto or wherever, I do think OLG should team up with some other company to drive this, say MGM or the like, it makes a lot more finical sense in the long run.

I question all of this though and think OLG is over blowing the befits to the province. I know a lot of people who take trips / go on buses (in university a lot) to Casino Rama ... I'm curious the % of visitors to that casino that come from the GTA. But they'll essentially all be completely eliminated ... I don't think Casino Rama will survive, it'll lose shows and a ton of visitors.

The impact to Niagra falls will be less as people visit for many other reasons, frankly most people I know who go to Niagra falls don't go for the casino ... from the GTA. From closer areas i.e. waterloo and the like that may be different, but they'll keep going.

 

[AKS]

Coolcanadian.....

You mentioned that the casino/resort will include:
- Huge convention space - downtown Toronto already has lots of convention space....will they lose business?
- 3 luxury hotes - Toronto already has many luxury hotels...will they lose business to resort hotels?
- high end shopping mall - already many shopping options in downtown toronto....will they see decrease in tourist traffic?
- mulitple high end restaurants - once again, already many restaurants in downtown toronto, will they lose tourist business to restaurants within the monster resort?
- nightclubs/spas....same argument

My point....Downtown Toronto already has many many established businesses who already compete amongst each other for the tourist dollar. What will happen to all those businesses when you create a monster casino resort for them to compete with too?

Convention space - Convention centre is gonna get redeveloped anyway and space may or may not shrink.

Luxury hotels - They appear to be building many 5 star hotels. If there's no demand for it, they won't build. If there's no demand, MGM won't build it.

High end shopping mall - Only Yorkville has high end stores. Only big mall downtown is Eaton.

High end restaurants - There's not many restaurants on the west end of downtown. There's not even a big grocery store.

Nightclubs - night clubs are getting kicked out on King St becoming dispersed to various parts of the city like guvernment on the east end (though who knows how long before they get kicked out because the neighbourhood will develop and people moving in will complain). Also, clubs are shifting further west wards a long King. There's always clubs getting develop while old one closes down)

I don't think MGM is interested in building anywhere but downtown. If they don't get it, they'll take their money elsewhere. The only issue at hand is the social impact a casino would have on Toronto.

Frankly, I'm hoping they turn Ontario Place into something like Odaiba but livelier, a place for entertainment, shopping, games, etc. A big Ferris wheel would be nice there too.

 

[jn_12]

I think your overdoing the potential demand for casino space in the GTA ... it's honestly not that large. If Markham gets a full size Casino, it doesn't make all that much sense to build another one downtown.

Woodbine is a little bit of a joke in terms of a casino ... okay its has hundreds and hundreds of slot machines.


Markham or Toronto or wherever, I do think OLG should team up with some other company to drive this, say MGM or the like, it makes a lot more finical sense in the long run.

I question all of this though and think OLG is over blowing the befits to the province. I know a lot of people who take trips / go on buses (in university a lot) to Casino Rama ... I'm curious the % of visitors to that casino that come from the GTA. But they'll essentially all be completely eliminated ... I don't think Casino Rama will survive, it'll lose shows and a ton of visitors.

The impact to Niagra falls will be less as people visit for many other reasons, frankly most people I know who go to Niagra falls don't go for the casino ... from the GTA. From closer areas i.e. waterloo and the like that may be different, but they'll keep going.

Niagara.

 

[taal]

Ah Niagara, of course, thanks.

I'm going to side with AKS on this one. I think this can be built downtown, including a hotel / a convention center, high end restaurants and high end shopping. The later being Canada style though By that I mean not that high end compared to the United States.

I say this because I speculate a lot of customers to the Casino won't be people who currently frequent downtown on a regular basis.

Having said that, I'm not sure if OLG is ready to get into bed with MGM or the like.

Let's not forget there is a ton of resistance to Ontario place, its practically been shot down already by local councilors and no one else objected.
So for those reasons I'm not sure downtown will happen.

 

[coolcanadian]

I agree with AKS. Our tourism industry will only grow if we let it grow.

When you think about it, our 5 Star hotels are scattered, and some not very tourist-friendly. The Trump is better for business travellers. The Four Seasons is in Yorkville, All of these: Trump, FS, SL, are all only a small portion hotel. Toronto has been seriously lacking nice hotels, maybe that is why people think we do not need them.

 

[taal]

Tourists in Yorkville ? Nooooo...

 

[jje1000]

I would have to disagree. When my family goes to Vegas (I'm 15 btw), we do most of the stuff outside the hotel.

This will add shows, amenities, hotels. The casino will be a casino, but it is something that ant found in Toronto anyway.

If we stay with the attitude that adding nicer shopping, hotels and shows is bad because it will take business away from the other hotels, shops, and shows, then we will never get anywhere.

Yeah, in Las Vegas, you can either dine and watch a performance at a casino, and if you don't like that casino, there's + 15 other casinos for you to choose. There's a reason why Downtown Las Vegas is dilapidated compared to the strip. Same applies to Niagara Falls- large resort complexes are self-contained entities that attempt to contain busines inside their confines.

 

[Towered]

It really wouldn't make any sense at all for a casino of this scale getting built anywhere but downtown. It's a good opportunity to finally rid ourselves of those horrible, massive parking lots at the Ex and Ontario Place and bring some much needed year-round activity to those under-utilized lands. The area could, and should, be a massive entertainment district. There isn't much residential nearby so he NIMBY factor would be minimal to deal with as well. But it absolutely has to be URBAN in its design - that's something that the city simply must insist on, and include rapid transit.

 

[Torontovibe]

Tourists in Yorkville ? Nooooo...

With all the druggies and hippies hanging out in the coffee shops, what tourist would want to stay in Yorkville?

 

[Torontovibe]

It really wouldn't make any sense at all for a casino of this scale getting built anywhere but downtown. It's a good opportunity to finally rid ourselves of those horrible, massive parking lots at the Ex and Ontario Place and bring some much needed year-round activity to those under-utilized lands. The area could, and should, be a massive entertainment district. There isn't much residential nearby so he NIMBY factor would be minimal to deal with as well. But it absolutely has to be URBAN in its design - that's something that the city simply must insist on, and include rapid transit.

As for Ontario Place not having any NIMBYs, you're wrong.

I don't live anywhere close to Ontario Place but I will be screaming my head off louder than any NIMBY if McGuinty tries to turn Ontario Place into a casino. I love Ontario Place and its futuristic floating pods, along with the historic Cinesphere. To this day, I still marvel at it's architectural awesomeness and beautiful setting. That is my favourite place on our waterfront and I am not going to let my Ontario Place be destroyed that easily. I am not alone in that regard. There are MANY people in Toronto who love the architecture and setting of Ontario Place (if not the actual attractions, which could easily be upgraded) and want to see it preserved as a place for the whole family, so in that sense, OP has many NIMBYs all over Toronto and even the GTA.

I want to see Ontario Place become the amazing park Dalton McGuinty promised us. I'm holding him to his word. (and so should all of you)

So many people on this site have trashed Toronto claiming we don't have enough tourist attractions to compete with other major cities but then you're the first ones to want to trash one of them, instead of trying to make it better. Why not keep Ontario Place for everyone and put the casino in another location, thereby adding to our tourist attractions. You can have your cake and eat it too. It just takes some compromise, to make everyone happy.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Ontario place is dead. Look at the amount of visitors from 1975 to 2012

 

[Lenser]

Torontovibe: All well and good - except, why would you assume your nimbyism wouldn't be echoed in other locations? I mean, you're clear that you don't want a new casino at Ontario Place. But what's your idea of "another location," precisely?

I'm no fan of putting the casino in the Portlands (I have my own reasons and I won't go into them here). My hope is that it go to Ontario Place, or Markham. Ontario Place, for all its historical charms, is clapped-out and sorely in need of work. If ever a property has been neglected, has taken many years to fall by the wayside, it's Ontario Place. You say you know many people who don't want a casino complex put there, and I believe you. But surely no one is happy with OP as it stands these days. It's sad and dilapidated and, relatively speaking, a ghostly, empty place. It needs some serious work and money sunk into it to turn it around. I can't think of a better way to spruce it up. With money being as tight in the city as it is and the province on an austerity footing, OP is going to have to attract some new business ventures to help it return to a more self-sufficient economic health.

 

[sixrings]

Agreed, Ontario Place is dead and I am very very pestamistic that the government will ever be able to make it a succesful park. I could imagine the Argos building their own stadium there.. Or I could imagine the Jays building their own stadium their but as an ammusement centre I think that ship has sailed. Once I had the idea that Wonderland should relocate there but Im pretty sure that the condo NIMBYs would fight that even though I wouldnt really understand why. I too would like to see more entertainment downtown. As a result the Aquarium might be my most watched project and really that doesnt excite me that much. Maybe the Science Centre could move to Ontario Place, maybe a Toronto Museum. But either way there is a lot of buildings and a lot of land to fill. I dont know why we would be saying NO to this proposal if its just going to land in markham. Either way there will be negative impacts on Torononians who will become addicted to Gambling. It just seems to make sense to me that if we are going to get the negative results of the casino anyway we miswell get the casino and the good with it as well.

keeping the cne grounds for the ex once a year is the biggest waste of space i can think of.

BTW i go to the CNE grounds a handful of times a year at best, a few times for a TFC game and once for the Molson Indy... SAD