Officially Unofficial Metrolinx Regional Transportation Plan Thread

[Dan416]

Who really cares where all the bus routes would go post-expansion west of Kipling? Each bus route would find a home, don't worry! The point doady is making is that there aren't any current bus routes that would be re-routed to Sherway from either Kipling or Islington (or East Mall). If a Sherway station was built, sure they may create a new route to serve it, or more likely beef up current service to the station. But the vast majority of routes won't be going to Sherway over Kipling or East Mall (Islington is out of the way for most routes versus Kipling).

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I never said all the buses should be rerouted to Sherway...EnviroTO did and I disagreed with him.

 

[FutureMayor]

No subway to Sherway Gardens.

We should not be spending billions of tax dollars to extend and redirect a subway line to a shopping mall surrounded by highways on the east and south sides, an industral park to the north and a river to the west.

All TTC reports I've read has ruled out spending any money extending the subway line to Sherway Gardens. The last report I read that included an extension to Dixie Road was somewhere in the $1.5 billion range for 2-3 stops. It is really worth it? Who if anyone benefits? You might as well use the $1.5 billion to run all day GO train service on the Milton line, or operate an O-Train type service from Kipling to MCC or even both with that type of money.

Mississauga has long been on the record to opposing any subway extension to Sherway because as many pointed out, it would benefit almost absolutely no commuters as it further takes the subway line away from the major transit routes and hubs - aka Dundas and Mississauga City Centre.

Louroz

 

[FutureMayor]

Ontario Budget 2008

Table 1
Metrolinx Transit Projects Provincial Investment
($ Millions)

Hamilton B-Line Improvements, King-Main Corridor 17.4
A-Line Improvements, James-Upper James Corridor with service to Hamilton International Airport 12.4
James Street North GO/VIA Station Gateway to Niagara 3.0

Peel Dundas and Hurontario Higher-Order Transit Corridor Development 26.5
Mississauga Transitway Hub, Airport-Renforth Gateway 39.0
Bolton GO Transit Improvements 0.6

Halton Dundas Street Bus Rapid Transit 57.6

York VIVA Highway 7 – Pine Valley Drive to Kennedy Road 52.0
VIVA Yonge Street – Richmond Hill Centre to 19th Avenue 19.0
VIVA Yonge Street – 19th Avenue to Newmarket 29.0

Durham Highway 2 Bus Rapid Transit Spine 82.3
Cornell Terminal 5.6

Toronto TTC Transit City Light Rail Transit (LRT) Head Start 7.1
Yonge Subway Capacity Improvements 293.0
Yonge Finch-Steeles Bus Rapid Transit 5.7 1

Inter-Regional Bicycle Expansion: New bicycle-carrying devices on municipal transit vehicles and bicycle-storage spaces at stations across the GO Transit network 5.0
GO Transit Rail Fleet Expansion: 20 additional bi-level passenger coaches for the GO Lakeshore Corridor 60.0
GO Transit Double-Decker Buses: 10 new double-decker commuter buses for the Highway 407-403 Corridor, and to York University 9.0
GO Track Expansion: New passing-track sections for the GO Bradford and GO Stouffville corridors 20.0

Total 2 744.2

1 Funding previously provided to the City of Toronto to meet the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund provincial commitment.
2 Funding provided through a combination of the 2007 Ontario Economic Outlook and Fiscal Review, the 2008 Budget and the ReNew Ontario Infrastructure Plan.

YAY for Mississauga!

Louroz

 

[RedRocket191]

We should not be spending billions of tax dollars to extend and redirect a subway line to a shopping mall surrounded by highways on the east and south sides, an industral park to the north and a river to the west.

All TTC reports I've read has ruled out spending any money extending the subway line to Sherway Gardens. The last report I read that included an extension to Dixie Road was somewhere in the $1.5 billion range for 2-3 stops. It is really worth it? Who if anyone benefits? You might as well use the $1.5 billion to run all day GO train service on the Milton line, or operate an O-Train type service from Kipling to MCC or even both with that type of money.

Mississauga has long been on the record to opposing any subway extension to Sherway because as many pointed out, it would benefit almost absolutely no commuters as it further takes the subway line away from the major transit routes and hubs - aka Dundas and Mississauga City Centre.

Louroz

I'm not going to dispute the points you make, but you do raise a very interesting side-discussion.

Does Mississauga have grounds to object to a transit project in Toronto?

Building a subway to Sherway Gardens could accelerate development in that area and could spur property owners to redevelop the mall parking lots into true mobility hubs - but if our objective is to go to Mississauga, then going to Sherway only makes it harder.

If we want Metrolinx to succeed, it will mean that independent cities will lose some control over their planning process. How far should it go? If cities are going to still plan every aspect of their lines, then why even have a regional transportation authority? If the regional authority is going to have total control over where lines go, then why even have transit planners in each city?

Where should the balance be?

And for the record, I support pendeltåg.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Mississauga has long been on the record to opposing any subway extension to Sherway because as many pointed out, it would benefit almost absolutely no commuters as it further takes the subway line away from the major transit routes and hubs - aka Dundas and Mississauga City Centre.

An extension to Dixie & Dundas via Sherway with a stop at East Mall/Honeydale benefits no commuters? Is that your final answer?

Going to Sherway on the way to Dixie does *not* make it harder to go to Mississauga; it's only 200m longer but could be easier and cheaper to build. It makes absolutely no sense to bypass a mall to serve one stop at an industrial park surrounded by a river that doesn't even have any roads that buses could take. Even if it just went to Sherway, Mississauga has no grounds to complain because they'd still get a bus terminal right off the 427 at the East Mall...nowhere has anyone said that all MT buses must run to the terminus station. Once Hurontario has an LRT and the Milton GO line has frequent all-day both way service - taking people to Kipling or Dundas West or downtown - there should be less demand for all of these long bus routes that feed the Bloor line (this is where someone should calculate travel time between Hurontario and Dundas West station via the Milton line and via the bus + subway).


As to RR191's point about municipal vs regional input, we're already seeing some variation, such as York Region, which operates and lobbies more or less fully unified (and not just YRT) compared to Peel. I don't see Mississauga giving up any of its autonomy any time soon, even if the loss is just a perception.

 

[ShonTron]

York Region has a relatively strong, relatively pro-transit leadership (Bill Fisch) and a unified voice for sure. It helps, I guess, when you have a structure like the EU - three big shots (Vaughan, Markham, Richmond Hill), another two welterweights (Newmarket, Aurora) and a collection of small players - King, Whitchurch-Stouffville, Georgina, East Gwillimbury). Peel is more like NAFTA - one giant, self-absorbed, selfish player with a Monroe, er Hazel, Doctrine, with one other player that would be a heavyweight if it were anywhere else, and one lightweight that would still be a welterweight if it were in York Region.

 

[doady]

Going to Sherway on the way to Dixie does *not* make it harder to go to Mississauga; it's only 200m longer but could be easier and cheaper to build. It makes absolutely no sense to bypass a mall to serve one stop at an industrial park surrounded by a river that doesn't even have any roads that buses could take. Even if it just went to Sherway, Mississauga has no grounds to complain because they'd still get a bus terminal right off the 427 at the East Mall...nowhere has anyone said that all MT buses must run to the terminus station.

What I am saying that that Sherway station would be of miniscule benefit to MT riders. What is the point of building a subway to the Mississauga border that doesn't benefit Mississauga at all?

York Region has a relatively strong, relatively pro-transit leadership (Bill Fisch) and a unified voice for sure. It helps, I guess, when you have a structure like the EU - three big shots (Vaughan, Markham, Richmond Hill), another two welterweights (Newmarket, Aurora) and a collection of small players - King, Whitchurch-Stouffville, Georgina, East Gwillimbury). Peel is more like NAFTA - one giant, self-absorbed, selfish player with a Monroe, er Hazel, Doctrine, with one other player that would be a heavyweight if it were anywhere else, and one lightweight that would still be a welterweight if it were in York Region.

The province could always split up Mississauga, right down Hurontario. That would weaken it considerably, especially since Hurontario is the main street.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Yeah, we shouldn't build anything unless Canada's sixth largest city benefits. Not a dollar should be spent in the GTA without Hazel's approval.

The border with Mississauga is completely irrelevant...or it will be once service and fares are integrated more. Why extend the subway to just beyond the border for the sake of giving Mississauga a subway? I know, I know, because the industrial park at Wharton Way could be redeveloped with endless skyscrapers - just like *any* other area.

 

[Undying42]

We should not be spending billions of tax dollars to extend and redirect a subway line to a shopping mall surrounded by highways on the east and south sides, an industral park to the north and a river to the west.

You do realize the Bloor Line has been redirected from its natural course for decades now right? Sherway Gdns is a major commercial area in the vain of SCC, Yorkdale or Fairview- all on the subway's radar. It's common sense to include it on any future extension westbound.

All TTC reports I've read has ruled out spending any money extending the subway line to Sherway Gardens. The last report I read that included an extension to Dixie Road was somewhere in the $1.5 billion range for 2-3 stops. It is really worth it? Who if anyone benefits? You might as well use the $1.5 billion to run all day GO train service on the Milton line, or operate an O-Train type service from Kipling to MCC or even both with that type of money.

Go big, or go home. If Sherway's excluded for silly nonsensical reasons (West Mall Circle and Dundas needs a subway stop over Sherway?) we may as well put the shovels away and build subways elsewhere. Like Scarberian keeps saying Dixie/Dundas would logically proceed the Sherway stop, whereby MT can intercept there.

Mississauga has long been on the record to opposing any subway extension to Sherway because as many pointed out, it would benefit almost absolutely no commuters as it further takes the subway line away from the major transit routes and hubs - aka Dundas and Mississauga City Centre.

Hazel MacMillon is stoically opposed to any subway entering Peel whatsoever. That's not even the point, where the heck would the line go from Sherway Gdns next if not through the Cookville and Square areas ?

What I am saying that that Sherway station would be of miniscule benefit to MT riders. What is the point of building a subway to the Mississauga border that doesn't benefit Mississauga at all?

Arriving at Sherway Gardens, Sherway Gardens Station. The next station is, Dixie, Dixie Station. The subway wouldn't terminate at Sherway, it'd be a significant stop en route to MCC.

 

[RedRocket191]

Dixie and Dundas will get a rapid transit station - there is no doubt about that. However, I'd bet my cash on pendeltåg along the railway corridor, rather than a subway along Dundas.

But that's just my reading of the way the winds are blowing...

 

[Edward Skira]

pendeltåg

What's that?

 

[CDL.TO]

What's that?

The Swedish term for a suburban rail system. A concept also known as RER, S-Bahn, S-Tog, CityRail, Cercanías, etc etc etc.

 

[Edward Skira]

Thanks.

I was just looking at maps of the area and I can't believe we'd run a subway along that route when a "pendeltåg" (lol) could be built along the same route for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Dan416]

If the subway isn't crossing the border anyway, Sherway is the logical place to end it. Even if the subway crosses Etobicoke Creek, I don't see a big problem with the subway serving Sherway and then Dixie/Dundas.