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Novel Coronavirus COVID-19 (nCoV-2019)

SunriseChampion said:
Then there are other crises that have been all but ignored, such as the very real and very dangerous opioid crisis. In British Columbia, more people have died from opioid-related incidents since the start of the plague than have died from the plague.

Where is your outcry in that regard? Your righteous indignation?

Nowhere, because you feel it doesn't affect you directly. Or doesn't have the potential for affecting you.
Click to expand...

In point of fact, I have raised this issue, just not in that particular post.

But I get where your coming from, many others have not.

Indeed, there is incredible harm; in our society not only from secondary effects of our actions (or inactions) in fighting the pandemic; but also in seeing those many areas where society was already in crisis pre-pandemic getting shoved to the proverbial back burner.

It not only speaks to the risks of myopia/tunnel vision; but also to the inability of some in government and society to 'walk and chew gum at the same time'

ie. Taking proper action to combat the pandemic does not preclude actions on other fronts at the same time.

Take a look this story from November; in which lines of thousands of cars formed to get free food before U.S. Thanksgiving.

Very few people would bother with that if not desperately in need of food.

www.cnn.com

Thousands of cars form lines to collect food in Texas

Thousands of people lined up for groceries at a food bank distribution event in Dallas, Texas, this weekend, with organizers saying the Covid-19 pandemic has increased need in the city.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
TrickyRicky said:
My disappointment during this pandemic is not in Doug Ford, Justin Trudeau, and John Tory (although they have all failed us badly). My disappointment is in Canada’s cultural and structural failures.
Click to expand...

My disappointment extends to a media and an electorate too tolerant of those failures.

At some point; certain government actions or inactions amount to at the very minimum gross incompetence; and surely merit a serious conversation about criminal negligence.

If you order the 'machine' of government to move; and people charged with doing so execute poorly that may not be the fault of political leadership.

But if the machine of government has given you clear, science-based advice and you have chosen not to follow it; repeatedly, without clear justification; that choice ought to bear consequences.

We don't need to ask for better; we need to insist.
 
Northern Light said:
In point of fact, I have raised this issue, just not in that particular post.
Click to expand...

That wasn't in reference to you specifically.....it was in reference to the covidiots who in their panic about a middling plague have shown that their concern for human life is rather limited to crises that have an air of sensationalist fervour around them.
 
A propos to nothing....well, a propos the plague, I guess: What evidence is there that staying two metres apart indoors in environments where everyone is masked and therefore incapable of transmitting respiratory viruses to others is helpful in preventing the transmission of respiratory viruses?

Not being facetious either. A legit questioniong of the rules because as Junius taught us (some of us, rather): "The subject who is truly loyal to the chief magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures"
 
SunriseChampion said:
A propos to nothing....well, a propos the plague, I guess: What evidence is there that staying two metres apart indoors in environments where everyone is masked and therefore incapable of transmitting respiratory viruses to others is helpful in preventing the transmission of respiratory viruses?

Not being facetious either. A legit questioniong of the rules because as Junius taught us (some of us, rather): "The subject who is truly loyal to the chief magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures"
Click to expand...

You ask, I answer.

From the British Medical Journal, an excellent summation of research on the subject.

www.bmj.com

Two metres or one: what is the evidence for physical distancing in covid-19?

Rigid safe distancing rules are an oversimplification based on outdated science and experiences of past viruses, argue Nicholas R Jones and colleagues Physical distancing is an important part of measures to control covid-19, but exactly how far away and for how long contact is safe in...
www.bmj.com www.bmj.com

A chart from said piece:

1610232553999.png



Some additional detail (from the BMJ):

The UK’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) estimates that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission at 1 m could be 2-10 times higher than at 2 m.35 A systematic review commissioned by the World Health Organization attempted to analyse physical distancing measures in relation to coronavirus transmission.36 Physical distancing of <1 m was reported to result in a transmission risk of 12.8%, compared with 2.6% at distances ≥1 m, supporting physical distancing rules of 1 m or more.

Worth reading the whole piece.

As the chart illustrations, the 2M rule is sound.....but nuance around it is important in understanding risk.
 
TrickyRicky said:
Alvin, that is a gross mischaracterization of my posts. I’m not sure what or who you are projecting onto me.

I pressed your button by looking at the numbers and speculating on how and why covid is spreading the way it is. You don’t care about numbers and theories. Fine.

My point was that the pandemics progression is not a magic black box. Our leadership could have implemented effective policy based on reason and foresight. They did not. They were reactionary and illogical, focused primarily on maintaining status quo culture and organizational continuity over effective leadership and structural reform.

As to the second half of your post where you go on an ideological political rant: That’s cool. If you want me to join you in trashing right-wing political leaders and governments in Canada so as to impose a siloed homogeneous political culture here that’s cool. They’re trash. I don’t support any of them; however, the narrative that political ideology matters in effective pandemic management is paper thin. Success stories around the globe consist of left and right wing governments, high and low tax countries, rich and poor resource countries, public and private healthcare systems etc.

My disappointment during this pandemic is not in Doug Ford, Justin Trudeau, and John Tory (although they have all failed us badly). My disappointment is in Canada’s cultural and structural failures.
Click to expand...

I apologize - I think I have conflated another post by someone else to yours.

AoD
 
Cheers for the link @Northern Light

I didn't know the BMJ published articles online for free!!! Fuuuuuuuuuu me, that's great. People might learn something.....or not. 😜

Lol, at the top of their page: "Intended for healthcare practitioners"

Bruv, the rest of us know how to read as well!


Starts off with the heading: Rigid safe distancing rules are an oversimplification based on outdated science and experiences of past viruses, argue Nicholas R Jones and colleagues


You don't saaaaay.
 
Sounds like a nosy passerby who doesn't actually know why the driver was pulled over.
 
Next step is probably to shut down construction and so on. I'm not sure a curfew even really makes sense, unless we think it will stop late night social gatherings. Is there any evidence that this is what is driving infection? I think there is lots of gratuitous social gathering going on (particularly for younger people).
 
afransen said:
I'm not sure a curfew even really makes sense, unless we think it will stop late night social gatherings. Is there any evidence that this is what is driving infection? I think there is lots of gratuitous social gathering going on (particularly for younger people).
Click to expand...

I have a couple of young friends who’ve been hanging out every week, usually after work around evening time. They said if a curfew goes in place, they will circumvent it by having sleepovers at each other’s place.
 
afransen said:
Next step is probably to shut down construction and so on. I'm not sure a curfew even really makes sense, unless we think it will stop late night social gatherings. Is there any evidence that this is what is driving infection? I think there is lots of gratuitous social gathering going on (particularly for younger people).
Click to expand...

I don't think a curfew would do a damn thing. I go to bed around 3 am. I live on a pretty busy street. There is hardly any traffic after 9 pm. No cars, no people walking, nothing. I don't think people are having large parties either, i would say most of the cases are coming from people who don't have the luxury of working from home. People who work in healthcare/ retail/ construction/ warehouse/ factories and other essential jobs, are the highest risk of catching and spreading Covid.
 
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