Next Mayor of Toronto?

[MetroMan]

The project's target would be dismantling the elevated Gardiner, not the expressway itself. The environmental assessment is in progress but options include diverting the expressway at grade along the rail corridor to the DVP and/or tunnelling which could be done cost effectively considering most of the lands are widely bare at this point. Delaying this project will simply mean that we'll continue to dump more money into maintaining crumbling infrastructure and ultimately spending a lot more money to take it down in a future where this area is built out.

Waterfront redevelopment East of Parliament would essentially be dead if the elevated Gardiner remains. Toronto is built along a major lake, yet we're not a waterfront city. That's beginning to change and I want our next Mayor to continue that trend.

 

[js97]

The project's target would be dismantling the elevated Gardiner, not the expressway itself. The environmental assessment is in progress but options include diverting the expressway at grade along the rail corridor to the DVP and/or tunnelling which could be done cost effectively considering most of the lands are widely bare at this point. Delaying this project will simply mean that we'll continue to dump more money into maintaining crumbling infrastructure and ultimately spending a lot more money to take it down in a future where this area is built out.

Waterfront redevelopment East of Parliament would essentially be dead if the elevated Gardiner remains. Toronto is built along a major lake, yet we're not a waterfront city. That's beginning to change and I want our next Mayor to continue that trend.

Great spin but...

-you say that if we tear it down, the NEW lakeshore will not require any maintenance? (it will, same 'crumbling infrastructure')

-lakeshore is aready lined with condoes left and right, and there is more coming up. doesn't matter if the rd is ground level or 20 feet above.

-and the only reason waterfront redevelopment isn't happening right now is because of bureacracy and the direction this administration is taking. Take if from a guy with direct sources from TEDCO. The gardiner is the last thing that's 'hindering' the development.

-The 'expressway' will be dismantled. It will be broken down with traffic lights, like the lakeshore right now. Call it what you would like, but it will be a 'local' street.


I sometimes wonder if people are simply 'spining' their ideas but understand the facts, or they are truely that clueless and blind sticking to their ideologues.

 

[Coltaine79]

I don't think burying/killing the elevated Gardiner is a huge priority for any Torontonians at the moment, save for a proportion on this forum.

I suppose that something will end up being done within 20-25 years time, but not in the next 5 years. There are more pressing matters.

Pareto principle. Focus on the most important 20% to benefit 80% of the population.

 

[MetroMan]

I sometimes wonder if people are simply 'spining' their ideas but understand the facts, or they are truely that clueless and blind sticking to their ideologues.

And I sometimes wonder if people don't leave their cubicles. Waterfront development is happening. It's been happening for quite some time and lately, we've been seeing the final stage of that development being complete on several projects and shovels hitting the ground on others.

Miller's administration has seen the most waterfront development of any Mayor. Period.

Development of the waterfront East of Parliament is hindered by the Gardiner. It goes right up to the water and nothing can be built further south of it.

As for the price of maintaining a decades old elevanted Expressway who's useful life is reaching its end versus patching up Lakeshore's potholes? It costs $11M annually just to keep the Gardiner from becoming unsafe. Every year this cost has been going up and by the end of the decade, it is projected to reach $25M. The Gardiner will come down. It's just a matter of which city council has the appetite to stop passing the buck.

Take if from a guy with direct sources from TEDCO.

... take this from a guy with direct sources in City Hall and WATERFRONToronto.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Great spin but...

You are so wrong on this issue that it hurts me to even think about.

-you say that if we tear it down, the NEW lakeshore will not require any maintenance? (it will, same 'crumbling infrastructure')

Everything requires maintenance. An over-sized multi-lane highway junction that was designed to handle projected demand from the never built Scarborough expressway will, by its very nature, require more, and more expensive, maintenance.

-lakeshore is aready lined with condoes left and right, and there is more coming up. doesn't matter if the rd is ground level or 20 feet above.

There are no condos anywhere near Lake Shore or the Gardiner east of Jarvis. You have no idea what you're talking about.

-and the only reason waterfront redevelopment isn't happening right now is because of bureacracy and the direction this administration is taking. Take if from a guy with direct sources from TEDCO. The gardiner is the last thing that's 'hindering' the development.

Waterfront development is happening faster than it ever has. It is, by its very nature, a bureaucratic process. But it's not like the private sector was going to do anything on its own.

-The 'expressway' will be dismantled. It will be broken down with traffic lights, like the lakeshore right now. Call it what you would like, but it will be a 'local' street.

There are a number of options on the table as per the current study on the section of the Gardiner East of Jarvis. The study is not complete.

I sometimes wonder if people are simply 'spining' their ideas but understand the facts, or they are truely that clueless and blind sticking to their ideologues.

I wonder that too.

 

[js97]

Tearing down the gardiner is a make work project.

The original estimate is 360 million to tear it down (and with this city's track record of estimation, it will most likely balloon to at least 500 million).

So after we've spent half a billion in tearing it down, we'll continue to spend 10-25 million annually for repairs. Don't sell it like it's fiscally intelligent to tear down the Gardiner. It's a 'nice to have' project, not a 'necessary' (except for unions) one. I'm sure the locals on esplanade will enjoy the extra traffic flow.

Development is already happening around the gardiner. Not sure if you've heard about the private/public development for 2015 panam games, but perhaps you should get out more. And FYI, the Chous building is the only thing that has been built, 1.5 year? can't wait to see how long the unions will milk sherbourne park for.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Sherbourne Park is opening next week.

No one is proposing to tear down the whole Gardiner. We are only advocating continued study of alternative arranagements from the currently way overbuilt and incredibly ugly section east of Jarvis that links with the DVP.

 

[archanfel]

Everything requires maintenance. An over-sized multi-lane highway junction that was designed to handle projected demand from the never built Scarborough expressway will, by its very nature, require more, and more expensive, maintenance.

Is the Gardiner under utilized? Or should any highway that doesn't stay jammed all day be destroyed? If so, why stop there? Why don't we tear down DVP south of Eglinton since it usually ease up right around there. How about north bound 404 between 401 and 16th?

I find it mind boggling why people would like to make all the highway disconnected. The Allen stops in the middle of nowhere. The Gardiner stops in the middle of nowhere. The 407 stops in the middle of nowhere. 400 stops in the middle of nowhere. And now you want the DVP to stop in the middle of nowhere?

I am all for developing the waterfront. The area south of Gardiner is being wasted today. Why? I really don't know since the Gardiner can't be the reason. The other highways have plenty of condos lining along them.

In any case, justified or not, proposals like this (either unexplained or unexplainable) frustrate drivers and people living in the suburbs. And that's exactly why Rob Ford is flying high. You reap what you sow.

 

[archanfel]

As long as it doesn't cost my tax dollar, study away. But for some reason, the $60 they charge me every year makes me doubt that.

 

[JasonParis]

Well, it's official, Rossi's new push is 100% appealing to Ford's base but he has the ability to present himself as less prone to scandal, less likely to embarrass the city, more statesmanlike. I think it can work for him. The good news is that certain people will never leave Ford as they've made up their minds and are staying put. This is very good news as Rossi will probably be able to take 10-15% away from Ford which will leave each of them in the 20% range. Smitherman and Pantalone will probably battle it out for the remaining 60% that lies in the gradients between Left to Centre.

It's official? Where? I haven't seen a poll in a few weeks!

 

[MetroMan]

^ I meant his policy intentions are to appeal to Ford's base, not that it is actually working -- we'll see.

 

[ladyscraper]

^ I meant his policy intentions are to appeal to Ford's base, not that it is actually working -- we'll see.

I really hope it works. We need any candidate stealing votes from Ford.

 

[Torontovibe]

I'd love to see the East Gardiner come down too.

On another note, I saw a commercial on CFTO news, saying they will release a new poll on Sunday at 6pm. It will be interesting to see if anything changes. I can't wait.

 

[adma]

I am all for developing the waterfront. The area south of Gardiner is being wasted today. Why? I really don't know since the Gardiner can't be the reason. The other highways have plenty of condos lining along them.

Uh...do they? "The other highways", I mean? Like, I see an awful lot of equally "wasted area" (due to single-family housing, industry, etc) along said "other highways".

And on the whole, maybe it's better to be momentarily "wasted area" a la the East Gardiner than to be execrable condo chaos a la the Motel Strip--then again, if you're in the Ford camp, you're probably an urban philistine, so it means little to you...

 

[MetroMan]

I'd love to see the East Gardiner come down too.

On another note, I saw a commercial on CFTO news, saying they will release a new poll on Sunday at 6pm. It will be interesting to see if anything changes. I can't wait.

Finally! So much has happened since the last poll.

I won't be surprised to see Rossi assume second or third place, siphoning his new numbers from Ford. I expect Smiterthman to post a significant decline. He hasn't done anything noteworthy lately and has been holding on solely on name recognition. Now that people are getting to know the other candidates, I think we'll see Smitherman's numbers fall to their benefit. Pants and Thomson will probably see incremental increases, Joe more than Sarah.

I'll go for:

1 - Ford
2 - Smitherman
3 - Rossi
4 - Pantalone
5 - Thomson