New Transit Funding Sources

[Adjei]

I only open up "The Sun" to look at the sunshine girl. I consider myself a fairly centre guy when it comes to politics.

But what exactly does Metrolinx do that the MTO couldn't do?

In the end Metrolinx could spend months, and even years planning a project and then Kathleen Wynne could walk in and tell them to scrap it and focus on something else, and they would have no choice but to do it.

The board at Metrolinx gets paid a lot of money (our tax dollars) just to discuss potential projects and make suggestions, but not actually build anything.



A panel to review another panel's work? Ridiculous! Toronto transit has become a circus show. More people getting paid on the public's dime and nothing getting built.

I see the issue here. More tax dollars are being spent on discussing transit then actually constructing transit.

I'm fed up!

What are you talking about? They were ask by the province to come with some recommendations for revenue tools, and they did that. Or do you want Metrolinx to go and draft legislation to increase the sales tax? Last time I checked the provincial government is the one that decides to increase taxes, not Metrolinx.

I can't take you serious if you say Metrolinx is not building anything? Go on their website, they have a list of projects they are building. If you want them to build more, they need money. Or are they supposed to now build projects when the money is not there.

People will complain about anything.

 

[Voltz]

I found this tweet from Metrolinx this morning to be rather ill timed and humerous considering recent actions by politicians

Metrolinx was created to play a critical role in planning for a seamless, integrated transit network across the #GTHA http://bit.ly/IMIUwC

 

[Adjei]

So, as if to prove that wondering about ML's role is not a Sun/Ford/TOareaFan concern...here is what the NDP tweeted a few minutes ago:

Does Metrolinx still exist? No longer in charge of transit planning or funding - maybe should be renamed "GO Transit."

It is a legitimate concern that we have gone through a lengthy process with ML and the plans and funding plans they have created are being shunned/questioned/ignored/amended by political interference.

Why doesn't the NDP tweet us a plan on how to pay for transit in this region. That would be more productive.

 

[Forgotten]

I'm laughing at last night's news of huge news with long term ramifications coming today.

Today's announcement is about something that was already known.

 

[TOareaFan]

So what do you want Metrolinx to do? Force the issue? They were told to go up with some recommendations and they did. What else are they supposed to do? What the province does with those recommendations is up to them. It seems the province is looking to see which ones get implemented. I don't know what you are complaining about. Seems you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

I am complaining about the endless cycle of plans/committees/studies we do.

We had recommendations from ML, yes. The government should decide what they can do. Not appoint another panel to study the last study.

The good news is the new panel went right to work....the bad news "work" is re-education on stuff we should know already.

One of the panelists is tweeting...here is her earth shattering stuff she is learning:

Go transit 80% operating costs covered by fares. Most global train systems only 50%. New funds need doe capital costs

Constantly starting from scratch is what is irksome.

 

[TOareaFan]

Why doesn't the NDP tweet us a plan on how to pay for transit in this region. That would be more productive.

In that tweet they seem to be saying....ML gave us a plan...let's do it! No?

 

[Adjei]

In that tweet they seem to be saying....ML gave us a plan...let's do it! No?

Yeah I guess it's just so simple. The province should just implement the Metrolinx revenue tools and that's it. We don't like a dictatorship. It's apparent that a lot of people don't like the revenue tools which were brought forward. They need to be fine tuned some to bring something that more people will come on board with. Even the increase in sales tax is not simple. It won't be so easy to implement just for the GTA, it may need to be implemented provincewide. Let's see how people in London, Ontario feel if they believe their taxes are going up to pay for Toronto transit.

As for the NDP, it's funny for them to tweet that message when they are the same people who said they don't support the Metrolinx revenue tools. Yeah let's see the Liberals try and push new taxes in the legislature without support. They are just playing silly politics.

 

[Adjei]

I am complaining about the endless cycle of plans/committees/studies we do.

We had recommendations from ML, yes. The government should decide what they can do. Not appoint another panel to study the last study.

The good news is the new panel went right to work....the bad news "work" is re-education on stuff we should know already.

One of the panelists is tweeting...here is her earth shattering stuff she is learning:



Constantly starting from scratch is what is irksome.

Dude you know we live in a democracy. Just because Metrolinx recommended some revenue tools, it can't just be implemented as is. How do you get the tax increase which was recommended implemented without support one one of the opposition parties for example? Yes the revenue tools need to be further looked at and see which ones are feasible and which ones can be implemented.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yeah I guess it's just so simple. The province should just implement the Metrolinx revenue tools and that's it. We don't like a dictatorship.

Who said anything about a dictatorship? The government was given a menu/roadmap to how to pay for the big move. We elect governments to make decisions....they choose to form a new panel to study, again, the issue. They deserve to be criticised for not making a call but, rather, pushing out the decision even further by having yet another panel of "experts" (although I am not sure an expert on this matter would consider that GO has 80% cost recovery a bit of "tweetable" news) to further study.
"

It's apparent that a lot of people don't like the revenue tools which were brought forward.

Here is breaking news.....no one likes new taxes. What did they expect? Cards and letters from people saying "thanks, I am looking forward to new taxes"?

They need to be fine tuned some to bring something that more people will come on board with.

So, fine tune them....don't form another panel to further study the matter.

Even the increase in sales tax is not simple. It won't be so easy to implement just for the GTA, it may need to be implemented provincewide. Let's see how people in London, Ontario feel if they believe their taxes are going up to pay for Toronto transit.

There is an example of a fine tuning.....if a sales tax has to be province wide...the money raised (to continue your example) in London can be returned to London for their own infrastructure issues.

As for the NDP, it's funny for them to tweet that message when they are the same people who said they don't support the Metrolinx revenue tools. Yeah let's see the Liberals try and push new taxes in the legislature without support. They are just playing silly politics.

Yes they are all playing silly politics....but the government actually has the power/mandate to just do something. Something other than a useless press conference to announce another panel.

 

[TOareaFan]

More tweets from @CheriseBurda would indicate that not only are these people starting from scratch, they are looking at far more than funding tools...they seem to be very interested in transit technology and, it appears, it is not just the investment strategy but the Big Move itself that is under scrutiny:

Tunnel boring. This is the best part! At black creek and eglinton. Borer is 100 m in the hole eastward. http://yfrog.com/nwpfksmj


Cherise Burda ‏@CheriseBurda

LRT runs at least twice as fast a streetcar. #panelstats


Cherise Burda ‏@CheriseBurda

Metrolinx technical expert explaining that LRT is not a streetcar.

 

[Adjei]

Who said anything about a dictatorship? The government was given a menu/roadmap to how to pay for the big move. We elect governments to make decisions....they choose to form a new panel to study, again, the issue. They deserve to be criticised for not making a call but, rather, pushing out the decision even further by having yet another panel of "experts" (although I am not sure an expert on this matter would consider that GO has 80% cost recovery a bit of "tweetable" news) to further study.
"




Here is breaking news.....no one likes new taxes. What did they expect? Cards and letters from people saying "thanks, I am looking forward to new taxes"?



So, fine tune them....don't form another panel to further study the matter.



There is an example of a fine tuning.....if a sales tax has to be province wide...the money raised (to continue your example) in London can be returned to London for their own infrastructure issues.



Yes they are all playing silly politics....but the government actually has the power/mandate to just do something. Something other than a useless press conference to announce another panel.

Dude I'm sure you know very well that this current minority government cannot implement any new sales tax increase without the support of one of the opposition governments. The NDP has said they won't support and the Conservatives sure won't. Please tell us how else it can be implemented since yous seem to think it's so easy and should be done right away.

 

[TOareaFan]

Dude I'm sure you know very well that this current minority government cannot implement any new sales tax increase without the support of one of the opposition governments. The NDP has said they won't support and the Conservatives sure won't. Please tell us how else it can be implemented since yous seem to think it's so easy and should be done right away.

First off, I would appreciate not being called "dude"...just hate that.

If this is an important matter (as I think it is and the government says it is) then decide what taxes are appropriate and introduce them. If the government falls on the matter (as you infer it would) then you have an election platform/issue "the public needs transit, we introduced the tools to pay for it and they said no to transit".

Or, if they do not think it is a matter important enough to risk the rest of their government's agenda...they can say "we can not reach an agreement with the opposition on revenue tools so we are putting that aside and getting on with the rest of government".

Instead, they have said "it is the most important issue, but we are going to re-study it".

I am pretty "a-political"....I judge each party's stance on each issue independantly....and this is the worst thing (IMO) that they could do. I have already told my MPP (who happens to be member of cabinet) that their chances of getting my vote the next time there is an election took a very serious hit today....we cannot be told how important this issue is and then get another rinse-wash-repeat cycle started.

 

[rbt]

Why doesn't the NDP tweet us a plan on how to pay for transit in this region. That would be more productive.

They've shown that already during the last election.

They would cancel most expansion plans and instead focus on lowering fares through increased (relative to today) corporate income tax rates.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

They've shown that already during the last election.

They would cancel most expansion plans and instead focus on lowering fares through increased (relative to today) corporate income tax rates.

And just when I thought that transit planning couldn't get any worse than the PCs...

They'll lower fares, but nobody will be able to take advantage of those lower fares because it takes an hour to get to transit.

Instead, why don't they focus on expansion so that single mother of three in Scarbrough can dump her minimum wage job and a get a better one downtown without having to commute two hours.

But that makes too much sense...

 

[RC8]

There is simply no political will from the PCs and the provincial NDP to implement any of Metrolinx's recommendations as they stand. The new report will be crafted by experts over the next 6 months. Once it's out, the government will re-evaluate the situation and try to push the recommendations through.

The truth is that the liberals are the only large party in the province who are committed to transit expansion.