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New Transit Funding Sources

BurlOak said:
How much confidence do we have in Metrolinx efficiently managing the $50B if they take 5 years to come up with a list of new taxes that numerous news columnists and internet bloggers came up with on their own? I would also like to know how much money was spent coming up with this list of taxes - if they can't keep track of that it is another ominous sign.
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It wasn't difficult to figure out how to put taxes up to pay for this. What they needed was complete gridlock in the region that would make drivers and people frustrated enough that they think the only solution is transit and will grudgedly pay for it if it will help. 5 years ago traffic was bad but now its sometimes living hell.
 
ssiguy2 said:
It is very reasonable to ask the people who receive a benefit to pay a portion of it and raising corporate taxes to pay for expansion in a province that is bleeding well paying manufacturing jobs shows an astounding lack of business sense.
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Taxes are paid on profits. A company which is not making a profit, and business owners try really hard not to show a profit, do not pay corporate taxes.

Profitable companies, that is profitable after trying really hard to not show a profit, pay corporate taxes.


Companies that are downsizing due to having an annual loss are not paying corporate income taxes. The corporate tax rate makes zero difference to these companies as their effective tax rate is 0%.
 
doady said:
Umm... the Province of Ontario should help pay for transit in Toronto, just like it does for transit for the rest of the province. A lot, if not most, of provincial revenue comes from the GTA after all. These new GTA taxes and tolls are needed but they should not absolve the province from its responsibility to help fund transit everywhere in Ontario, including the GTA. Other provincial governments contribute to transit expansion, Ontario should be no different.
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The province {meaning all Ontarians} is already paying for Toronto transit to the tune of $16 billion. The GTA has 6.4 million and Metro London has exactly 500,000. If any funds were distributed fairly then London should have gotten about $1.2 billion with no contribution expected from the citizens of London...............Londoners are still waiting for their cheque in the mail but something tells me they have a VERY long wait. London has horrif traffic problems and getting across London can be a hell of a lot longer and painful experience then getting across the City of Toronto.

I am not saying that the province should not be contributing to GTA transit needs as they should be and already have but this idea of one region getting all the money is unfair in the extreme.

When it comes to transportation, Toronto has had it a lot easier than much of Ontario. Imagine if you were in a sparsely populated county where huge swaths of King's Highways were downloaded onto your books with no way to pay for them. Middlesex county had nearly 200 km downloaded to them yet has only a population of 70,000 to pay for all those extra costs as London's 385,000 don't pay for non-city roads.

If the taxes are implemented province wide then great but each county/municipality should get it's share based on their population.
 
ssiguy2 said:
The province {meaning all Ontarians} is already paying for Toronto transit to the tune of $16 billion. The GTA has 6.4 million and Metro London has exactly 500,000. If any funds were distributed fairly then London should have gotten about $1.2 billion with no contribution expected from the citizens of London...............Londoners are still waiting for their cheque in the mail but something tells me they have a VERY long wait. London has horrif traffic problems and getting across London can be a hell of a lot longer and painful experience then getting across the City of Toronto.

I am not saying that the province should not be contributing to GTA transit needs as they should be and already have but this idea of one region getting all the money is unfair in the extreme.

When it comes to transportation, Toronto has had it a lot easier than much of Ontario. Imagine if you were in a sparsely populated county where huge swaths of King's Highways were downloaded onto your books with no way to pay for them. Middlesex county had nearly 200 km downloaded to them yet has only a population of 70,000 to pay for all those extra costs as London's 385,000 don't pay for non-city roads.

If the taxes are implemented province wide then great but each county/municipality should get it's share based on their population.
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Transit should be funded based on population? That's ridiculous. Transit should be funded based on ridership.

How much does it cost Middlesex County to maintain its roads? Somehow I doubt it's anywhere near the approx $1 billion it takes to maintain and operate the TTC each year.

But you are going off topic. Roads are another issue, transit is another issue. The province is responsible to fund transit, it's as simple as that.
 
nfitz said:
Really?

Our cash fare is $3, and tickets/Presto is $2.65. So:

AgencyCashPresto/Ticket
TTC$3.00$2.65
YRT$3.75$3.00
Durham$3.00$2.70
MiWay$3.25$2.70
Brampton$3.50$2.75
Oakville$3.25$2.70
Burlington$3.25$2.70

We seem to be the cheapest ... though perhaps Milton has us beaten on tickets. Can't say I've ever used Milton Transit ...

Outside the GTA you see some a bit cheaper. But I'm not seeing any evidence that Toronto is the most expensive in North America!
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Montreal $3.00
Chicago $2.25
New York $2.50
Los Angeles $1.50 !!!!
Mexico City $0.25 (US)
Guadalajara $0.30 (US)

Five largest cities
Atlanta also has a lower fare despite being in a similar situation.
There's no way Toronto or Montreal are not the most expensive
 
ssiguy2 said:
The province {meaning all Ontarians} is already paying for Toronto transit to the tune of $16 billion. The GTA has 6.4 million and Metro London has exactly 500,000. If any funds were distributed fairly then London should have gotten about $1.2 billion with no contribution expected from the citizens of London...............Londoners are still waiting for their cheque in the mail but something tells me they have a VERY long wait. London has horrif traffic problems and getting across London can be a hell of a lot longer and painful experience then getting across the City of Toronto.

I am not saying that the province should not be contributing to GTA transit needs as they should be and already have but this idea of one region getting all the money is unfair in the extreme.

When it comes to transportation, Toronto has had it a lot easier than much of Ontario. Imagine if you were in a sparsely populated county where huge swaths of King's Highways were downloaded onto your books with no way to pay for them. Middlesex county had nearly 200 km downloaded to them yet has only a population of 70,000 to pay for all those extra costs as London's 385,000 don't pay for non-city roads.

If the taxes are implemented province wide then great but each county/municipality should get it's share based on their population.
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I partially disagree on this. Toronto has the worst traffic congestion of anywhere. Toronto has been disabled by politics as well. Having said that Toronto is not paying for all of this, but still it is not enough.
 
innsertnamehere said:
What pisses me off so much about that is that toronto transit not only has the most expensive fares in North America, but is far and away the least subsidized transit authority in North America. To suggest raising fares would be insane. Increasing a ttc fare by $0.25 would make it 30% more expensive than a NYC fare! Not to mention the fact that it costs me $20 to get downtown and back on GO currently. (Though mind you I am travelling around 35km to do so)
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regardless of what actual fares are in the GTHA when compared to other municipalities, what I was pointing to was a reaction by some that the funding tools proposed do not include any increased contribution from transit users directly....then the follow on was that the NDP could be brought onside if fares were actually reduced as part of the plan......how this goes will ultimately be decided in the world of politics and I was simply pointing out that if the arch villain in the transit file is deemed to be the Tories, then raising taxes for transit while increasing taxes (presumably higher/more than ML have proposed if a fare reduction has to be accounted for) may have the unintended consequence of handing the file over to the Tories.
 
leopetr said:
Last I heard, LA does not allow for transfers between routes. You have to pay a full fare every time you changes buses.
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Same with several cities, including New York.

Sure, I can ride the subway in New York for $2.00. But if I were to ride the subway, transfer onto another line and then take a bus, I'm looking at a $6.00 fare. In Toronto you can do this as much as you want, without paying a dime over $3.00.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Montreal $3.00
Chicago $2.25
New York $2.50
Los Angeles $1.50 !!!!
Mexico City $0.25 (US)
Guadalajara $0.30 (US)

Five largest cities
Atlanta also has a lower fare despite being in a similar situation.
There's no way Toronto or Montreal are not the most expensive
Click to expand...

Look up Farebox Recovery Ratio at this link to see:

The farebox recovery ratio (also called fare recovery ratio) of a passenger transportation system is the fraction of operating expenses which are met by the fares paid by passengers. It is computed by dividing the system's total fare revenue by its total operating expenses.
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how much the fares cover the cost of public transit vs the subsidies they get.
 
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