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New Transit Funding Sources

TOareaFan said:
Huh? 1) malls would not want to discourage window shoppers and 2) malls do not charge parking fees
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Yorkdale is at the point which every spot needs to be reserved for those whom are actually going to shop. Malls currently do not charge for parking but they may in the future and there is good argument for places like Yorkdale that they should.

Reasons to charge...

Limited parking spaces
Discourage window shoppers
They are already charging Valet Parking which might have sounded crazy even five years ago
Too many people using Yorkdale to park but are actually heading downtown and have no intention of spending money in the mall
Create a premium atmosphere which goes with Yorkdales Premium branding
 
TOareaFan said:
wow...a $1.5B from a parking levy? What does that equate to? What kind of tax per stall or hour (or whatever) raises that kind of money?
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It would be massive I'd think. Presumably you tax every house in the city with a driveway and every workplace with a parking spot.

In comparison, Green P revenue for the entire city was $130 million in 2013 (with about $74 million of expenses leading to $65 million of revenue).

I've got a hard time thinking $1.5 billion is realistic.
 
nfitz said:
It would be massive I'd think. Presumably you tax every house in the city with a driveway and every workplace with a parking spot.

In comparison, Green P revenue for the entire city was $130 million in 2013 (with about $74 million of expenses leading to $65 million of revenue).

I've got a hard time thinking $1.5 billion is realistic.
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totally agree....seems like a number plucked out of the air with little foundation....but I await the answer from the person who suggested it.....perhaps there is some way to generate that sort of income that you and I can't think of
 
muller877 said:
Simple reason why it was disregarded. Every time a "soccer mom" drove to the mall or grocery store to buy food for the kids they would see a parking tax. And they will blame the Liberal government for the tax. Every day a suburban family would be reminded of the tax that is "funding the downtown Liberal elites transit".

The federal PC party learned how popular the GST was during the '93 election. And every party is now scared to introduce a direct tax because of it.
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nfitz said:
It would be massive I'd think. Presumably you tax every house in the city with a driveway and every workplace with a parking spot.

In comparison, Green P revenue for the entire city was $130 million in 2013 (with about $74 million of expenses leading to $65 million of revenue).

I've got a hard time thinking $1.5 billion is realistic.
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TOareaFan said:
totally agree....seems like a number plucked out of the air with little foundation....but I await the answer from the person who suggested it.....perhaps there is some way to generate that sort of income that you and I can't think of
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A lot incorrect here, at least compared to the parking levy proposal that was recommended by Metrolinx.

That levy was not going to be applied to residential parking, only to commercial entities and institutions etc.

The property owner would see the charge, not the parker. Chances are, if a place had paid parking they'd just nudge up the rates to compensate. If a place had free parking, property owners could choose to keep parking free, bake the levy into their cost of doing business like any other tax, and pass it on to consumers. Ideally, it would motivate some more places with free parking to switch to paid parking, and also act as a financial drag on additional surface parking.

I went and re-checked all the gory details (still available here). $1.5 billion was calculated out by KPMG as the total revenue assuming $1/space/day. Metrolinx recommended 25 cents/space/day, pulling in $350 million.
 
Platform 27 said:
A lot incorrect here, at least compared to the parking levy proposal that was recommended by Metrolinx.

That levy was not going to be applied to residential parking, only to commercial entities and institutions etc.

The property owner would see the charge, not the parker. Chances are, if a place had paid parking they'd just nudge up the rates to compensate. If a place had free parking, property owners could choose to keep parking free, bake the levy into their cost of doing business like any other tax, and pass it on to consumers. Ideally, it would motivate some more places with free parking to switch to paid parking, and also act as a financial drag on additional surface parking.

I went and re-checked all the gory details (still available here). $1.5 billion was calculated out by KPMG as the total revenue assuming $1/space/day. Metrolinx recommended 25 cents/space/day, pulling in $350 million.
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And one of the flaws was that it was not going to be a flat based $x/spot/day.....it was going to be variable based on things like assessed value of the property....so this was going to be tied up for a very long time (something approximating "forever") as property owners fought it out over who paid what....and in the odd chance that did not take us out to "forever" fight "b" (ie. property owners fighting municipalities/gov't/OMB over the fairness of taxing spots they never wanted but were forced to build because of zoning by-laws) would fill that gap.

All that is to say, the chances that any parking levy was going to be successful in raising $1.5B was/is very slim......the $350mil figure would have similar challenges but, given the amounts, the fights might have proven easier to solve.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Let's see: Both Eaton Centre and Hudson's Bay Centre charge for parking. Valet parking at most malls also means you have to pay.
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sure those malls charge....forgive me if i was talking about suburban malls.......yes they offer premium service for a fee...just as, say, GO charges for reserved spots but, generally, parking is free.
 
TOareaFan said:
sure those malls charge....forgive me if i was talking about suburban malls.......yes they offer premium service for a fee...just as, say, GO charges for reserved spots but, generally, parking is free.
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I was talking specifically about Yorkdale which doesn't have enough spots for its shoppers. They would benefit from weeding out window shoppers. Not having sufficient parking for those who actually want to shop leads some to go elsewhere.
 
sixrings said:
I was talking specifically about Yorkdale which doesn't have enough spots for its shoppers. They would benefit from weeding out window shoppers. Not having sufficient parking for those who actually want to shop leads some to go elsewhere.
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it hasn't yet....they are doing quite well actually.
 
TOareaFan said:
it hasn't yet....they are doing quite well actually.
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I know how well they are doing but they are also doing their best to try to keep enough parking for their shoppers. Over Christmas they were offering money back to shoppers who were coming by ttc aand they have started to ban workers from parking at the malll on the weekends. They wouldn't be doing these things without good reason. Btw if you park underground for too long you start paying an hourly rate. Those cameras which were installed for security (records all license plates of incoming and outgoing cars) can also keep track of how long a car is in the lot. Security might have been a reason but parking enforcement will be added benefit to those cameras.
 
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W. K. Lis said:
Suburban hospitals have paid parking (see link). Pearson Airport has paid parking (link). Even suburban community colleges (Humber College) has paid parking (see link). So its getting normal to pay for parking.
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None of that is particularly new.....have lived in the suburbs most of my 53 years and hospitals, airports and post-secondary educational institutes have had paid parking during all of that time.

Suburban shopping and most suburban office parks, however, do not.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Suburban hospitals have paid parking (see link). Pearson Airport has paid parking (link). Even suburban community colleges (Humber College) has paid parking (see link). So its getting normal to pay for parking.
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For every suburbia paid parking, there are dozens of this:

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sixrings said:
I know how well they are doing but they are also doing their best to try to keep enough parking for their shoppers. Over Christmas they were offering money back to shoppers who were coming by ttc aand they have started to ban workers from parking at the malll on the weekends. They wouldn't be doing these things without good reason.
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Yes...as part of their expansion they are expanding their parking...but to do that they had to tear down an existing structure to build a new larger one...so, yes, as a temporary measure they are making short term moves to alleviate the issues driven by the expansion.
 
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