New Transit Funding Sources

[sixrings]

While I agree with you, an Eg subway from Don Mills to Weston would still probably be better than Sheppard since it's twice as long and connects to both YUS branches.

would like to be able to get my wife to work at the airport without a transfer or without a car

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If it's switched to a subway there's no way it's going to the airport. It would either be the current length or even shortened to the underground part only.

thats my fear. As much as the Liberal plan is 3 stubs they are at least expandable. I dont want another sheppard where it costs to much to expand so nothing ever happens. A shorter subway from don mills to weston would be very depressing.

While I agree with you, an Eg subway from Don Mills to Weston would still probably be better than Sheppard since it's twice as long and connects to both YUS branches.

would like to be able to get my wife to work at the airport without a transfer or without a car

The extension to the airport will be built at some point, whatever the tech. The ridership is there, it's the busiest airport in the country and some people will not pay 15 dollars for the UPX. Remember in 1995 Eglinton West was a subway.

 

[nfitz]

The extension to the airport will be built at some point, whatever the tech. The ridership is there...

2,000 people per hour is ridership?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

2,000 people per hour is ridership?

And how old are those projections? And how is that any different from Eglinton between Victoria Park and Kennedy? Less then that was good enough for a subway in 1995.

 

[ehlow]

And how old are those projections? And how is that any different from Eglinton between Victoria Park and Kennedy? Less then that was good enough for a subway in 1995.

They also thought Sheppard was "good enough for a subway" at that time. It was political when they started the Sheppard & Eglinton subways.

It's really hard for me to imagine them tunnelling under Eglinton between Weston and the airport. It's much easier for me to imagine it as a lower-cost extension at-grade requiring no tunnels and cheap stops.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

They also thought Sheppard was "good enough for a subway" at that time. It was political when they started the Sheppard & Eglinton subways.

It's really hard for me to imagine them tunnelling under Eglinton between Weston and the airport. It's much easier for me to imagine it as a lower-cost extension at-grade requiring no tunnels and cheap stops.

Me too, but it's hard to imagine the PC majority government building any LRT.

 

[ehlow]

Me too, but it's hard to imagine the PC majority government building any LRT.

That's why I'm saying that your hope that PC's build a subway from airport to Kennedy is not realistic to me.

Assuming that they win and want to convert Eglinton it is much more likely that they will either bury the current line from Weston to Kennedy, or worst case just build the Weston to Don Mills part.

The positive thing is that since the tunnels are being built there will be some form of underground transit happening regardless, but the only guaranteed part is the current tunnel.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That's why I'm saying that your hope that PC's build a subway from airport to Kennedy is not realistic to me.

Assuming that they win and want to convert Eglinton it is much more likely that they will either bury the current line from Weston to Kennedy, or worst case just build the Weston to Don Mills part.

The positive thing is that since the tunnels are being built there will be some form of underground transit happening regardless, but the only guaranteed part is the current tunnel.

Even the tunnels can be filled. Ask rbt, nfitz or any of the older posters. If all of eglinton is buried, the subway cars will be used. The T1's will be around long then expected.

 

[ehlow]

Even the tunnels can be filled. Ask rbt, nfitz or any of the older posters.

At this point that is very unlikely though. When the Eg West subway was cancelled in 95 they had just barely started the launch shaft. Plus Hudak simply says he wants underground transit so why would he fill the tunnel? It's much more likely that he either truncates it or buries the east part.

They should be starting serious construction on the east launch shaft soon as well.

 

[nfitz]

And how old are those projections?

October 2010. Estimates were for the year 2031.

And how is that any different from Eglinton between Victoria Park and Kennedy?

How? Massively.

The Eglinton Crosstown AM Peak arrivals at the airport are estimated to be 500 people per hour. The AM peak arrivals at Renforth westbound are 1,500 an hour, with 400 departures an hour eastbound.

The 2,000 per hour numbers aren't even related to the airport. It's only when you get east of Scarlett you get to numbers greater than 2,000. At Jane it suddenly jumps to 3,000. It's no wonder that in 2010 they moved the terminus from Pearson to Jane (and later to Mount Dennis).

Compare the 500 between Renforth and Eglinton to 2,7000 to 3,000 between Kennedy and Victoria Park.

Less then that was good enough for a subway in 1995.

The 1995 subway plan was only to Mount Dennis (York Centre).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

At this point that is very unlikely though. When the Eg West subway was cancelled in 95 they had just barely started the launch shaft. Plus Hudak simply says he wants underground transit so why would he fill the tunnel? It's much more likely that he either truncates it or buries the east part.

They should be starting serious construction on the east launch shaft soon as well.

Right but if he is told it cost too much to bury Eglinton East?

October 2010. Estimates were for the year 2031.

Fair

How? Massively.

The Eglinton Crosstown AM Peak arrivals at the airport are estimated to be 500 people per hour. The AM peak arrivals at Renforth westbound are 1,500 an hour, with 400 departures an hour eastbound.

The 2,000 per hour numbers aren't even related to the airport. It's only when you get east of Scarlett you get to numbers greater than 2,000. At Jane it suddenly jumps to 3,000. It's no wonder that in 2010 they moved the terminus from Pearson to Jane (and later to Mount Dennis).

Compare the 500 between Renforth and Eglinton to 2,7000 to 3,000 between Kennedy and Victoria Park.

Isn't Kennedy empty all the time, that's shocking to me that they would say that. We both know the cutting of Eglinton west was political. Do you support the construction of Eglinton phase 2?

The 1995 subway plan was only to Mount Dennis (York Centre).

Right, why was Pearson to Mt Dennis good enough for the subway when the number were mostly likely lower then what the 2010 estimate was in 1995 but not good enough now or to build the LRT as a whole now.

 

[nfitz]

Even the tunnels can be filled. Ask rbt, nfitz or any of the older posters.

Even I doubt that Hudak would actually fill in the existing piece of tunnel. But they could do what New York City did when they, they stopped construction on the Second Avenue line in 1975, and simply maintained the unused tunnel until tunnelling resumed 35 years later in 2010. Or London Underground, that had started tunnelling the Jubilee line from Charing Cross to Aldwych, when work stopped in the late 1970s, and has been preserving that tunnel all this time, still unused.

I expect the most likely scenario is that they'll simply build the line from Mount Dennis to Eglinton West, and cancel the rest of the contracts. I doubt they'd bother building any stations though, which is far more expensive then just the tunnelling.

 

[ehlow]

Right but if he is told it cost too much to bury Eglinton East?

Then he would simply end the transit line at Leslie or Don Mills or somewhere in that area. It makes no sense to fill in the tunnel at this point.

 

[nfitz]

Isn't Kennedy empty all the time, that's shocking to me that they would say that.

What do you mean "Kennedy empty all the time". That's the busiest subway station on the Bloor-Danforth line other than the Yonge and St. George transfer stations. Heck, it's busier than King, Queen, and Dundas stations. It's almost twice as busy as Downsview station.

We both know the cutting of Eglinton west was political. Do you support the construction of Eglinton phase 2?

Sure, killing the Eglinton West subway was political ... that's what the PC party does ... cuts infrastructure projects for Toronto. Do I support Phase 2? I think it makes sense to Renforth. I'd have to see more detailed study information from Rendorth to Pearson ... though it might make sense for other reasons ... with frequent service coming to the Kitchener line, I think extending it just part Pearson to Malton GO station might be worthwhile, and not particularly expensive.

Right, why was Pearson to Mt Dennis good enough for the subway when the number were mostly likely lower then what the 2010 estimate was in 1995 but not good enough now or to build the LRT as a whole now.

When has there ever been a study to build subway from Pearson to Mt Dennis? The 1990s EA was only from Eglinton West to Mount Dennis, as far as I know. And that too was political ... just before that, it had only been planned as BRT in the original Network 2011.

 

[nfitz]

Then he would simply end the transit line at Leslie or Don Mills or somewhere in that area. It makes no sense to fill in the tunnel at this point.

It might not make sense to fill in the existing tunnel, however only Keele to Allen Road is currently being tunnelled. And it would be a lot cheaper to just preserve the existing tunnel, then it would be to start building stations at $100 million a pop.