New Transit Funding Sources

[gweed123]

outside of the BRTs, the majority of the big move projects are regional.

Hamilton LRT, many of the Zum lines in Brampton, Sheppard East LRT, Finch West LRT, Jane LRT, Don Mills LRT, Scarborough-Malvern LRT, Waterfront West LRT, Scarborough Subway.

Pretty much the only projects in the Big Move that have real regional purpose are: GO improvements (obviously), the Downtown Relief Line (for capacity issues), North Yonge Subway, Yonge BRT, Highway 7 BRT, 407 Transitway, Mississauga Transitway, Hurontario LRT, Dundas BRT, Durham Highway 2 BRT.

I may have missed a few, but I think I got most of the priority ones.

I should point out that in this context, "regional" means "has an effect on multiple municipalities".

 

[ehlow]

Hamilton LRT, many of the Zum lines in Brampton, Sheppard East LRT, Finch West LRT, Jane LRT, Don Mills LRT, Scarborough-Malvern LRT, Waterfront West LRT, Scarborough Subway.

Pretty much the only projects in the Big Move that have real regional purpose are: GO improvements (obviously), the Downtown Relief Line (for capacity issues), North Yonge Subway, Yonge BRT, Highway 7 BRT, 407 Transitway, Mississauga Transitway, Hurontario LRT, Dundas BRT, Durham Highway 2 BRT.

I may have missed a few, but I think I got most of the priority ones.

I should point out that in this context, "regional" means "has an effect on multiple municipalities".

Damn if we didn't amalgamate Eglinton would have been SO regional

 

[nfitz]

She did not say she won't bring back the PST did she? HST != PST

Why would anyone do anything that dumb. As far as I know, the HST is relatively revenue netural compared to the old PST - though presumably scouring through old budgets would reveal that. Though if it wasn't, the solution is simply reducing the provincial portion of the rate from 8% to 7.5% or 7%.

 

[gweed123]

Damn if we didn't amalgamate Eglinton would have been SO regional

I still consider that to be of regional significance, mainly because it would be the only municipal RT connection to Pearson from Toronto.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

But that's working on the assumption that all funds have to come from the Province. They could be counting on the Feds for part of it, or they could be planning to introduce legislation that would allow all municipalities to create revenue tools for their own local projects (ie extra powers similar to what Toronto was given in the City of Toronto Act).

My point is that there are other ways to get to the amount needed instead of the Province paying the full fare. My guess is the $2B/year will be distributed amongst "regional" projects, or maybe that they will fund regional projects + 1 local project per region. If municipalities want more beyond that (ex: Toronto for Finch or Sheppard Phase 2), they can pay for them via their own revenue tools.

Sure, but will that happen though? Past behavevior dictates Toronto makes the province pay for everything. I hope so, we have to put transit in our own hands, but we'll see here.

I still consider that to be of regional significance, mainly because it would be the only municipal RT connection to Pearson from Toronto.

If chow can be convinced, we can get eglinton west back on the table very soon.

 

[Adjei]

Politicians in this province and the general population talk and dream big when it comes to transit but when it comes down to pay for it, they become timid.

 

[TFC]

Despite being shocked by today's announcement, I will wait and see what's included in the provincial budget. If the money will be dedicated from other revenue streams (other than the ones ruled out today), I think we should still be happy. $2 billion a year is still $2 billion a year, regardless of whether it comes from a parking levy or from an increase to the HST.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That was sort of my initial reaction at first as well (Chronicled as I saw the news on CP24 in the Pickering GO station, actually) but it doesn't sound like they are really planning to scale down the amount of projects, so I feel they are still somehow going to find the money.

 

[TFC]

I will add that I'm disappointed that Wynne refused to listen to the advice of both Metrolinx and the Golden report. It leaves an awful taste in my mouth when politicians ignore the advice of people with an expertise in transit in favour of scoring populist political points.

 

[innsertnamehere]

in the end it has to be passable as well.. if she had listened the taxes likely never would have even passed. with the announcement today they probably will.

 

[rbt]

I will add that I'm disappointed that Wynne refused to listen to the advice of both Metrolinx and the Golden report. It leaves an awful taste in my mouth when politicians ignore the advice of people with an expertise in transit in favour of scoring populist political points.

Golden is a historian and professional fundraiser; she has zero experience in transit but is usually really good at solving political problems. Her job was to find a funding solution that would stick past the next election but neither the NDP or Conservatives liked her results, and one of them had to.

 

[gweed123]

I will add that I'm disappointed that Wynne refused to listen to the advice of both Metrolinx and the Golden report. It leaves an awful taste in my mouth when politicians ignore the advice of people with an expertise in transit in favour of scoring populist political points.

I stand to be corrected, but was one of the big points from the Golden Report using corporate taxes to raise the funds? If so, that's still very much on the table.

Wherever the tax increase happens, either way it's just a shell game. An increase to corporate taxes will just cause those businesses to increase their prices, which would be passed on to the consumer. As RoFo is so fond of saying, "there's only one taxpayer".

 

[rbt]

I stand to be corrected, but was one of the big points from the Golden Report using corporate taxes to raise the funds? If so, that's still very much on the table.

Wherever the tax increase happens, either way it's just a shell game. An increase to corporate taxes will just cause those businesses to increase their prices, which would be passed on to the consumer. As RoFo is so fond of saying, "there's only one taxpayer".

While true, many sell their products internationally and revenue is claimed for their Ontario office. The impact will be slightly more distributed.

I still don't understand why the conservatives railed against a regional tax bump as it would seem the best way to protect their rural voting base. A corporate tax bump will be Ontario wide.

That said, I Ontario corporate taxes are well below the North American average and high paying skilled jobs tend to be created in the most educated areas, not the lowest taxed; so I'm not exactly against this particularly when combined with the post-secondary grant element.

 

[doady]

I like the idea of raising corporate taxes for transit. But corporate taxes just for transit? I don't know. There's no connection between corporate tax and transit, like gas tax and road tolls. And gas tax and road tolls could be done locally according to each community's needs. Not all of Ontario wants to build more transit.

 

[TOareaFan]

How much of an increase to the corporate tax rate would be needed to raise $2B a year (assuming no companies left)? How much for half of the $2B?