New Streetcars

[mangasparky]

Has anyone noticed that critics of streetcars (usually car drivers) complain that streetcars cause congestion in front of them, when in reality it is cars in front of the streetcars that are causing the congestion. Usually single occupant cars as well.

Usually people that complain about cars are people that don't drive cars. It's laughable that some of these people believe that cars will someday in the near future be extinct, when that is really not the case.

In a perfect world all the main street car lines would be undeground, especially the 501. Just imagine the 501 underground. Moving at top speeds, and more trains to handle the increased volume. Car drivers would be happy because of the less congested Queen St, everyone would be happy. I have heard that there have been oppurtunites to bury it long ago, but it never came to be.

 

[Swarley]

Usually people that complain about cars are people that don't drive cars. It's laughable that some of these people believe that cars will someday in the near future be extinct, when that is really not the case.

So only people who have cars and drive them downtown are fit to complain about cars? Umm... the people that walk, bike and take transit are not the ones contributing to congestion downtown. They have a perfect right to complain. And noone believes that cars will be extinct, you just made that up.

 

[mangasparky]

So only car drivers complain about street cars? You are trying to flip around what I was trying to flip around. Bottom line, cars will always be there and the attitude thrown around on this forum sometimes, from people in the transit bubble is so anti-car that I find it hard to think otherwise.

I want both, I use both, but I have to commute with a car because transit just isn't fast enough. When transit is faster, I will switch, and use my car for other things.

I believe it's the streetcar in the way of the car, not the other way around. When the streetcars get faster and don't stop at every block, then I'll change my opinion.

 

[Justin10000]

In a perfect world, there would be no cars impeding streetcars.

 

[jeffreym]

So only car drivers complain about street cars? You are trying to flip around what I was trying to flip around. Bottom line, cars will always be there and the attitude thrown around on this forum sometimes, from people in the transit bubble is so anti-car that I find it hard to think otherwise.

I want both, I use both, but I have to commute with a car because transit just isn't fast enough. When transit is faster, I will switch, and use my car for other things.

I believe it's the streetcar in the way of the car, not the other way around. When the streetcars get faster and don't stop at every block, then I'll change my opinion.

Why, at any given intersection, should a streetcar with 120 people not be given priority over 10 or 20 cars? It's not an issue of loving or hating cars, it's simply an issue of moving more people in a given space. If that incidentally slows down some cars, well, that's an unfortunate byproduct, but we've managed to increase the road's carrying capacity.

 

[EnviroTO]

Exactly. How self-important can you be to be sitting behind a streetcar with 100 people on it thinking it should get out of the way of your car which likely only has you in it? Downtown streetcars are slow because they are sharing lanes with traffic and get stuck at the many stoplights along the route.

 

[mangasparky]

I didn't say anything about giving priority to anyone.. Streetcars accelerate slow and cars accelerate fast. It is cars that try to get around, and not vice versa, so street cars ARE in the way. It would be great if we didn't have to share, and streetcars were underground. Win/win for everyone.

 

[EnviroTO]

That is incorrect. Unless cars are purposely gunning it to get ahead of the streetcar so they can change lanes before getting cut off by a parked car (make way for the car with nobody in it) they accelerate at about the same level.

 

[jeffreym]

I didn't say anything about giving priority to anyone.. Streetcars accelerate slow and cars accelerate fast. It is cars that try to get around, and not vice versa, so street cars ARE in the way. It would be great if we didn't have to share, and streetcars were underground. Win/win for everyone.

You imply a priority pretty clearly. You imply that since cars accelerate faster than streetcars, that streetcars have no/less claim to use street space. What I was pointing out is that I feel that streetcars have more of a right to street space/time since of their increased carrying capacity.

Why should the TTC need to fundraise the enormous sums to bury transit vehicles when they're the ones who are using the space efficiently?

 

[mangasparky]

That is incorrect. Unless cars are purposely gunning it to get ahead of the streetcar so they can change lanes before getting cut off by a parked car (make way for the car with nobody in it) they accelerate at about the same level.

Exactly, if streetcars were not in the way cars wouldn't have to gun it to get ahead. Streetcars do not accelerate at the same rate. If they did, no car would try to get around them.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Exactly, if streetcars were not in the way cars wouldn't have to gun it to get ahead. Streetcars do not accelerate at the same rate. If they did, no car would try to get around them.

Streetcars are completely capable of accelerating at the same rate. They don't downtown due to traffic or because they're waiting for passengers to load.

If we only build medium and high capacity transit when we have the money to build underground, we're not going to build much transit.

 

[nfitz]

If we have to buy 800 buses and build 4 new bus garages close to downtown to replace the streetcars, we aren't going to build much transit.

 

[EnviroTO]

Exactly, if streetcars were not in the way cars wouldn't have to gun it to get ahead. Streetcars do not accelerate at the same rate. If they did, no car would try to get around them.

No. Cars are trying to get around them because the streetcars keep stopping for the traffic ahead of them, stopping for passengers, and drive the legal speed limit, not because they accelerate slowly.

 

[Calrissian]

And mangasparky, consider all the streets that do not have any street cars, but still crawl along at stop and go speeds?

 

[Towered]

Usually people that complain about cars are people that don't drive cars. It's laughable that some of these people believe that cars will someday in the near future be extinct, when that is really not the case.

In a perfect world all the main street car lines would be undeground, especially the 501. Just imagine the 501 underground. Moving at top speeds, and more trains to handle the increased volume. Car drivers would be happy because of the less congested Queen St, everyone would be happy. I have heard that there have been oppurtunites to bury it long ago, but it never came to be.

I drive a car. I complain about cars.