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New Streetcars

A friend of mine just did a tour of Hillcrest and one of his photos appears to be of the streetcar mockup under construction.
 
I got permission to repost the photo I was refering to:

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It reminds me of when they build sets for Star Trek and it's all just made of plywood and then it's painted to look like metal.
 
So...I can't believe we are at a point where this is a subject I actually feel compelled to think about, but anyone care to take any guesses at what the cancellation clause on the Bombardier LRV order looks like? With possible future mayor Ford musing about ripping out the legacy streetcar network, I am hoping David Miller had the foresight to agree to a VERY steep cancellation fee. Like, hundreds of millions, if possible. Enough so that with the cost of, oh, 600 or so new buses it would be a wash vs. just completing the order.
 
allabootmatt said:
So...I can't believe we are at a point where this is a subject I actually feel compelled to think about, but anyone care to take any guesses at what the cancellation clause on the Bombardier LRV order looks like? With possible future mayor Ford musing about ripping out the legacy streetcar network, I am hoping David Miller had the foresight to agree to a VERY steep cancellation fee. Like, hundreds of millions, if possible. Enough so that with the cost of, oh, 600 or so new buses it would be a wash vs. just completing the order.
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The mayor would have only 1 vote on city council. Metrolinx, under provincial direction, is paying for Transit City and the new light rail vehicles for it.
 
Indeed, the mayor has only one vote. But in practice, this would probably the easiest time since the 70s to kill off the legacy network. Without new vehicles and a new carhouse--both of which require significant capital outlays that haven't yet been spent (though they are budgeted, and in a contract in the LRV case), the network would be kaput....
 
That is the thinnest part of the aisle and removal of a seat wouldn't widen the aisle much because the reason those seats are so high is that they are on top of the wheel well. You can see further down the car seats facing the middle with a wider aisle and seats at a normal elevation. Also, unlike the current low floor buses and streetcars there will be no need to push yourself down that aisle if it is blocked because on both sides of these thin aisles there are wide doors.
 
Toronto1 said:
Does anybody at the TTC ride the TTC these days? I don't live on a streetcar line, or go to work on one, so it is almost always voluntary when I ride one, but I am going to avoid these new vehicles if that's the finalized seating plan. Unless the car is near empty, it is going to feel crowded quickly even when it really isn't crowded based on the width of that gangway. I understand that there are more spacious compartments for people in wheelchairs, with strollers and/or bicycles. However, assuming a wider headway between cars, which the TTC has talked about in the past, those sections are going to spillover into these tight ones fairly quickly during the morning and evening commutes, and certainly at other times of the day. This type of seating is much more suited to a GO or VIA train than a streetcar that is stopping to board and de-board passengers every few blocks. It would be an improvement even if one side of the mock-up only had a single row of seats, albeit still facing one another.
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People will use the streetcar doors like they do presently with the subway car doors. Most people would attempt to move over one door to get on, while the others are getting off. Most people prefer a forward facing seat, then a rear facing seat, and a side seat is usually last, usually. Anyway, opposite all the doors there will be NO seats, where the baby strollers and bicycles can be out of the way, but the preference would be with the double doors for them.
 
On a packed bus at rush hour, no one prefers standing in the upper section at the back compared to the lower section. Those rows of double seats on each side make it difficult for people to stand with enough room for others to pass them to get to the doors. These configurations aren't improvements over the old Orion buses and CLRV streetcars.
 
junctionist said:
On a packed bus at rush hour, no one prefers standing in the upper section at the back compared to the lower section. Those rows of double seats on each side make it difficult for people to stand with enough room for others to pass them to get to the doors. These configurations aren't improvements over the old Orion buses and CLRV streetcars.
Click to expand...

Unlike the buses and CLRVs which require people to go forward to get to an exit there is always two doors, one behind and one in front on the new streetcars. In total there are four doors on the new streetcars and the end doors are fully to the front and back. There was less problem getting people to stand at the back of the old buses where passengers didn't have to go up stairs.
 
So, anyone know what they use in Germany? Just wondering.

This is a pic from the city centre in Kassel, Germany:

Tram2.jpg


I like how integrated the cafés and pedestrian area are with the tram access.
 
Has anyone noticed that critics of streetcars (usually car drivers) complain that streetcars cause congestion in front of them, when in reality it is cars in front of the streetcars that are causing the congestion. Usually single occupant cars as well.
 
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