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New Land Transfer Tax

If you have a problem with city council, perhaps you should take the job on yourself. Just don't come crying to us after not receiving a raise in 10 years. Councillors need to be paid too. They probably work a hell of a lot harder than you do.
 
the average city salary tops $60,000 per year
As it does in most Canadian cities.

a city of Toronto cleaner makes on average $20.91/hr., a parks labourer $20.45/hr. and a garbage collector $23.38/hr. Needless to say, these allegedly "competitive" salaries (which do not include some 23% extra in benefits) far surpass what's paid for similar duties in the private sector.
I have no problem with city workers making a fair wage. Sure, it could be argued they make a few dollars too much, but even still it doesn't begin to address Toronto's fiscal straight-jacket. Moreover, decent wages keep our economy humming and set a standard by what is paid to non-union employees. Trust me, few of us would make what we do if we didn't have union wages to compare ours to. You also aren't factoring in the amount that must be given over to line a company's profit margin if these services were to be privatized. Comparing wages is meaningless really. What needs to be compared is the cost of having public workers versus private workers administer the work. Indeed, it tends to be cheaper outsourcing certain services, but the savings aren't nearly what comparing wages makes them appear.

Miller refuses to contemplate reversing city council's recent pay raise
At the end of the day, Toronto is half a billion in the hole and reversing councillors recent raises will save -- I think I heard -- $2 million. Therefore, it would be purely symbolic. Whether or not it should be done anyway is fair debate.

-Miller refuses to consider unpaid time off for staff, similar to "Rae Days"
-Miller refuses to contemplate reversing city council's recent pay raise
Good, because Toronto isn't a poor city. Why should our generally hard-working politicians take a modest pay cut and why should our civil service have forced un-paid time off? Toronto's fiscal crisis is an illusion created not by Toronto, but by our senior levels of government. Why isn't the Toronto Sun asking them why? Aren't they a Toronto-loving paper?

Basically, Ottawa and Queen's Park refuse to allow the level of government that affects people's lives the most the tools that it needs to be successful. In fact, they saddle that level with programs that it doesn't have the funds nor the revenue generating capacity to administer. Cut Toronto's wages and "so-called" fat all you want, but you'll still be millions in the hole only the city will look and feel worse.

This problem isn't Toronto's either. It may be most acute here, but it's a problem affecting every major city in the country and is only getting worse.
 
As it does in most Canadian cities.
I have no problem with city workers making a fair wage. Sure, it could be argued they make a few dollars too much, but even still it doesn't begin to address Toronto's fiscal straight-jacket. Moreover, decent wages keep our economy humming and set a standard by what is paid to non-union employees. Trust me, few of us would make what we do if we didn't have union wages to compare ours to.
How exactly do higher union wages keep the economy humming? Higher wages result in higher taxes, which results in less disposable income for citizens. All that these excessive union wages and benefits do is transfer wealth from those who don't work for the city to those who do. Go into any restaurant or hotel or ask any non-government cashier or cleaning person or just about any other labourer doing menial work in the private sector if they make $20-25/hour plus 23% benefits. I'm pretty sure most of them would make less than half of what the city pays its employees (including benefits) for similar work. So how is the city's pay scale fair? You could argue that the private sector employees are underpaid, but then you'd have to be prepared to pay twice as much every time you shop, go to a restaurant, stay at a hotel, etc. Are you prepared to do that?

And in case you think I'm just being hard on the blue collar workers, I'm not. I also find it obscene that the number of city employees making more than $100,000/year more than doubled on Miller's watch. And that number is in the thousands.
 
Why is it obscene? $100,000 is not a huge salary in the Toronto market. If the city wants skilled employees, it will have to pay for them.
 
TTC Operator Wages
$19.53-25.75(after 30 months)

Vancouver:
$18.16 to $25.94

Calgary:
$20.44 - 23.00 - 25.55

Toronto police salary:
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/careers/salaryandbenefits.php

Vancouver Police:
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/police/recruiting/salary.htm

Calgary Police:
http://www.calgarypolice.ca/recruiting/html/salary_benefits.htm

RCMP:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting/salary_benefits_e.htm

OPP:
http://www.opp.ca/Recruitment/opp_000582.html

For these positions, Toronto salaries seem to be on par with other cities with a comparable cost of living. If anyone has numbers for the other positions in these cities, please post them.
 
Why is it obscene? $100,000 is not a huge salary in the Toronto market. If the city wants skilled employees, it will have to pay for them.
Well, Miller has more than doubled the number of "skilled employees" who earn more than $100,000 per year in his short time in office. So, do you think these "skilled employees" have done a good job in managing the city's affairs? Do you think Toronto is a better place to live today than it was before Miller came into office? And as for $100,000/year not being a big deal, maybe not on Bay St., but it's 2.5 times the average salary of Torontonians.
 
How exactly do higher union wages keep the economy humming? Higher wages result in higher taxes, which results in less disposable income for citizens.

By slipping in the word "union" I think what you are trying to deliver here is a hot button issue. The minute you take the word "union" out of the sentence, you are arguing for low wages across the board in the belief that a lower level of taxation on a smaller income somehow increases disposable income.

I can tell you from personal experience that this is not so. As my income has gone up, so have my taxes. But so has my disposable income, as well.
 
Hydrogen:

Higher wages result in higher taxes, which results in less disposable income for citizens.

This statement has got to be one of the best I've heard for awhile - I guess everyone would die for minimum wage jobs since it will result in the most disposable income for citizens.

AoD
 
Hydrogen:



This statement has got to be one of the best I've heard for awhile - I guess everyone would die for minimum wage jobs since it will result in the most disposable income for citizens.

AoD
You just took my writing out of context. When you read all of what I wrote, it's clear that what I was saying is that higher wages for city employees results in higher taxes, which results in lower disposable income for those not employed by the city. I guess people here are unconcerned with David Miller being beholden to the unions and giving in to all of their demands. The end result will be city wages that continue to rise far faster than inflation, and taxes that rise far faster than inflation, with no improvement in services, and more likely than not, declining services. But at least the average city worker will be able to retire to a lifestyle of luxury at age 60 with their huge pension benefits.
 
I suggest you stop your complaining and get a job with the city if it is such a gravy train.

(Okay, a bit low)

As has been pointed out, when it goes to binding arbitration, the unions usually come out ahead as well, despite Lastman's supposedly best efforts.
 
3cp1:

Let me tell you what lowers the disposable income of the residents - having to subsidize the private sector employees those whose wages are being depressed to below a level where they could live without government support, just so that someone can having their investments work out for the private sector early retirement gravy train. Give it some thought next time you're eating at McD or shopping at Wal-Mart?

AoD
 
How exactly do higher union wages keep the economy humming? Higher wages result in higher taxes, which results in less disposable income for citizens. All that these excessive union wages and benefits do is transfer wealth from those who don't work for the city to those who do.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand your argument whatsoever. Higher wages can equal a higher tax bracket, but you are only taxed on the difference above the previous bracket, so it never means less disposable income. The City of Toronto is one of the region's largest employers and having their workers making a decent wage indeed plays a small role in keeping the economy humming.

And in case you think I'm just being hard on the blue collar workers, I'm not. I also find it obscene that the number of city employees making more than $100,000/year more than doubled on Miller's watch.
Not a Toronto phenomenon. The $100,000 club has been growing exponentially everywhere. It's part inflation and part what is required in order to get the qualified people for the job...rightly or wrongly.
 
The other point is that in many departments, there's so much work and so few staffers, overtime is going up, contributing to the $100,000 club.

To an extent, it is cheaper to pay overtime than hire more staff, but it also results in declining rate of return plus burnout where it makes it worth it to hire more people - but with hiring freezes, overtime goes up.
 
And in case you think I'm just being hard on the blue collar workers, I'm not. I also find it obscene that the number of city employees making more than $100,000/year more than doubled on Miller's watch.

How many were at $98,000 a year before Miller was elected. You make it seem they all went from $50,000 to $100,000 under Miller.
 

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