DavidJamesTO
Active Member
If Bombardier wants to make things easier on themselves in the DMU market, they should buy Colorado Railcar's design. The company's gone under, so presumably it's up for grabs--who better to make an offer?
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MoveOntario 2020: GO Transit Electrification
- Thread starter Hipster Duck
- Start date
ShonTron
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Funny thing is, is that how often does a passenger train crash with a freight or another passenger train at speeds where FRA brute strength vs. crumple zones would have made the difference? The last one I heard about was a few years ago on LA's MetroLink.
If you have full CTC, no manual-activated switches (ie no direct industrial connections to mainline track), and competent staff, why would this really be needed, especially short-distance regional rail without 'dark territory'?
If the FAA went with FRA thinking, no commercial airliner would be able to fly under its own power.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
But see that's the problem... The regulations haven't really changed since the pre-CTC days.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Finally they are listening to the majority of Toronto residents.
Metrolinx to study electrification of GO Transit's rail system
TORONTO, May 26 /CNW/ - Metrolinx is going to study the electrification
of its entire GO Transit rail system as a future alternative to diesel trains
currently in service. An external advisory committee made up of community
representatives, including riders and independent technical experts, will be
established to advise Metrolinx on the Terms of Reference for the study.
"This committee's advice will be important as we move forward in
designing the study to guide us in converting GO Transit's urban rail network
from diesel to electric," said Rob Prichard, President and CEO of Metrolinx.
Among the issues the Terms of Reference could address:
- Criteria to determine the staging of electrification of GO's rail
lines
- Performance improvements for riders
- Power supply and distribution
- Union Station capacity
- Rail corridor ownership
- Urban planning benefits
- Vehicle technology options and availability
- Physical constraints
- Property impacts
- Impacts on GO capital and operating costs
"The Big Move recommends future Express Rail service throughout the GTHA,
for which electrification is an important element. This study is the critical
next step. I am very pleased that we are moving forward on this issue in a
comprehensive way," said Rob MacIsaac, Chair of Metrolinx.
The study could commence as early as this summer and be completed by
winter 2010.
Metrolinx is a Crown agency of the Province of Ontario. For more
information visit our website www.metrolinx.com.
Metrolinx to study electrification of GO Transit's rail system
TORONTO, May 26 /CNW/ - Metrolinx is going to study the electrification
of its entire GO Transit rail system as a future alternative to diesel trains
currently in service. An external advisory committee made up of community
representatives, including riders and independent technical experts, will be
established to advise Metrolinx on the Terms of Reference for the study.
"This committee's advice will be important as we move forward in
designing the study to guide us in converting GO Transit's urban rail network
from diesel to electric," said Rob Prichard, President and CEO of Metrolinx.
Among the issues the Terms of Reference could address:
- Criteria to determine the staging of electrification of GO's rail
lines
- Performance improvements for riders
- Power supply and distribution
- Union Station capacity
- Rail corridor ownership
- Urban planning benefits
- Vehicle technology options and availability
- Physical constraints
- Property impacts
- Impacts on GO capital and operating costs
"The Big Move recommends future Express Rail service throughout the GTHA,
for which electrification is an important element. This study is the critical
next step. I am very pleased that we are moving forward on this issue in a
comprehensive way," said Rob MacIsaac, Chair of Metrolinx.
The study could commence as early as this summer and be completed by
winter 2010.
Metrolinx is a Crown agency of the Province of Ontario. For more
information visit our website www.metrolinx.com.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
I find it strange, that many forum members couldnt care less if our rail system is "Electrified"
Trains could GO electric
Posted By RAYMOND BOWE
GO trains could go from diesel-powered to electric.
Metrolinx, which merged with GO Transit earlier this month, says it will study the possibility of electrifying the entire GO Transit rail network, as a future alternative to the diesel trains currently in service.
"Electrification of rail services means more than just running trains by electricity," the Crown agency says. "It means upgrading the infrastructure and service offered to increase the frequency, speed and reliability of train service."
GO Transit has seven rail lines throughout southern Ontario, fanning out like spider legs in all directions from Union Station in downtown Toronto. The GO system spans 390 kilometres and includes 59 stations. It operates 53 diesel locomotives and 470 double-decker passenger cars.
Erich Jacoby-Hawkins, a Barrie environmentalist and former Green Party candidate, called the decision to even investigate electric trains "courageous."
"That is absolutely the No. 1 priority they should have," he said, adding electric commuter rail is used in other countries, but has never really taken off in Canada.
"The current model is a 1950s update on early 1900s technology," he said. "That means it take a long time to speed up and a long time to slow down."
A diesel train takes between five and 10 minutes to reach full speed, he said.
"Before they get to full speed, they're already slowing down for the next stop," Jacoby-Hawkins said.
GO Transit service returned to Barrie in December 2007, after a 14-year absence. A second GO platform will also be added at the former Allandale station when the property is redeveloped.
An electric train could potentially make it to downtown Toronto in under an hour while making all the stops, Jacoby-Hawkins said. Quicker train trips into and out of Toronto would likely mean more vehicles wouldn't be using the highway.
"The benefits (of electric) are immense. One of the biggest ones is speed," he said. "If electric trains are that fast, people would take the GO. That takes a large number of cars off the road. Speed means convenience."
Electric trains have better acceleration, Jacoby-Hawkins said, because each axle is essentially its own motor. He used Toronto subways as an example, where riders are pushed back into their seats as the trains depart the station.
Diesel engines also have to warm up, particularly in the winter, so Jacoby-Hawkins said emissions would be eliminated with electric trains.
"With electric, you don't have those issues," he said. "There are no issues with idling or warming up."
Metrolinx, a transportation organization focusing on the Greater Toronto and Hamilton areas, says it wants to make mass public transit faster, while also easing congestion and creating jobs in this troubled economy.
There would be significant costs associated with upgrading the tracks and adding the infrastructure needed to run accommodate electric trains, but Jacoby-Hawkins believes it would be worth it.
He said it could also be a good move for the economy because Bombardier manufacturers electric trains right here in Canada.
"It could be a huge uptake of jobs," he said, especially with many people in the automotive industry being laid off.
An advisory committee made up of community representatives, including riders and technical experts, will be established to advise Metrolinx on the terms of reference for the study.
"This committee's advice will be important as we move forward in designing the study to guide us in converting GO Transit's urban rail network from diesel to electric," said Rob Prichard, president and CEO of Metrolinx.
The study could address performance improvements, power supply and distribution, Union Station capacity, rail corridor ownership, urban planning issues, vehicle technology options and availability, physical constraints, property impacts, and the possible effects on GO capital and operating costs.
The study could commence as early as this summer and be completed by the winter of 2010.
The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area Transit Implementation Act 2009 passed third reading at Queen's Park, May 12. Transit planning and building will be combined into one organization, under the name Metrolinx.
Trains could GO electric
Posted By RAYMOND BOWE
GO trains could go from diesel-powered to electric.
Metrolinx, which merged with GO Transit earlier this month, says it will study the possibility of electrifying the entire GO Transit rail network, as a future alternative to the diesel trains currently in service.
"Electrification of rail services means more than just running trains by electricity," the Crown agency says. "It means upgrading the infrastructure and service offered to increase the frequency, speed and reliability of train service."
GO Transit has seven rail lines throughout southern Ontario, fanning out like spider legs in all directions from Union Station in downtown Toronto. The GO system spans 390 kilometres and includes 59 stations. It operates 53 diesel locomotives and 470 double-decker passenger cars.
Erich Jacoby-Hawkins, a Barrie environmentalist and former Green Party candidate, called the decision to even investigate electric trains "courageous."
"That is absolutely the No. 1 priority they should have," he said, adding electric commuter rail is used in other countries, but has never really taken off in Canada.
"The current model is a 1950s update on early 1900s technology," he said. "That means it take a long time to speed up and a long time to slow down."
A diesel train takes between five and 10 minutes to reach full speed, he said.
"Before they get to full speed, they're already slowing down for the next stop," Jacoby-Hawkins said.
GO Transit service returned to Barrie in December 2007, after a 14-year absence. A second GO platform will also be added at the former Allandale station when the property is redeveloped.
An electric train could potentially make it to downtown Toronto in under an hour while making all the stops, Jacoby-Hawkins said. Quicker train trips into and out of Toronto would likely mean more vehicles wouldn't be using the highway.
"The benefits (of electric) are immense. One of the biggest ones is speed," he said. "If electric trains are that fast, people would take the GO. That takes a large number of cars off the road. Speed means convenience."
Electric trains have better acceleration, Jacoby-Hawkins said, because each axle is essentially its own motor. He used Toronto subways as an example, where riders are pushed back into their seats as the trains depart the station.
Diesel engines also have to warm up, particularly in the winter, so Jacoby-Hawkins said emissions would be eliminated with electric trains.
"With electric, you don't have those issues," he said. "There are no issues with idling or warming up."
Metrolinx, a transportation organization focusing on the Greater Toronto and Hamilton areas, says it wants to make mass public transit faster, while also easing congestion and creating jobs in this troubled economy.
There would be significant costs associated with upgrading the tracks and adding the infrastructure needed to run accommodate electric trains, but Jacoby-Hawkins believes it would be worth it.
He said it could also be a good move for the economy because Bombardier manufacturers electric trains right here in Canada.
"It could be a huge uptake of jobs," he said, especially with many people in the automotive industry being laid off.
An advisory committee made up of community representatives, including riders and technical experts, will be established to advise Metrolinx on the terms of reference for the study.
"This committee's advice will be important as we move forward in designing the study to guide us in converting GO Transit's urban rail network from diesel to electric," said Rob Prichard, president and CEO of Metrolinx.
The study could address performance improvements, power supply and distribution, Union Station capacity, rail corridor ownership, urban planning issues, vehicle technology options and availability, physical constraints, property impacts, and the possible effects on GO capital and operating costs.
The study could commence as early as this summer and be completed by the winter of 2010.
The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area Transit Implementation Act 2009 passed third reading at Queen's Park, May 12. Transit planning and building will be combined into one organization, under the name Metrolinx.
kEiThZ
Superstar
^ It's not that we don't care. Many of us are just concerned that funds for this project could divert from other much needed service improvements. Other than that it's good news and good news is rarely ever given a standing ovation.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
For me it's a case of not wanting new tracks to stay idle while the wires are strung up. I kinda resent the assertion that some people (not necessarily you) have made that this stance means I don't care.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Diesel trains have coalition smoking mad
Of the 100 major jurisdictions in the world, only two are investing in diesel, said Parkdale-High Park MPP Cheri DiNovo at a Clean Train Coalition sponsored community meeting, Tuesday, June 2.
"Bangladesh and Budapest," said DiNovo. "No one else."
Should the project go through as planned, it will create the single busiest diesel rail corridor on the planet,
Electric trains don't produce any emissions and they don't pollute. There are 400-plus chemicals in diesel. Diesel fumes cause a chemical soup comprised of everything from carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulphur dioxide and particulate matter (PM), Milburn pointed out.
"The mayor has been clear. Folks in Toronto should be standing up. It should be electric from day one," he said.
At Queen's Park, DiNovo said a motion has been put forward calling for the electrification of all trains immediately.
http://www.insidetoronto.ca/article/70120
Of the 100 major jurisdictions in the world, only two are investing in diesel, said Parkdale-High Park MPP Cheri DiNovo at a Clean Train Coalition sponsored community meeting, Tuesday, June 2.
"Bangladesh and Budapest," said DiNovo. "No one else."
Should the project go through as planned, it will create the single busiest diesel rail corridor on the planet,
Electric trains don't produce any emissions and they don't pollute. There are 400-plus chemicals in diesel. Diesel fumes cause a chemical soup comprised of everything from carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulphur dioxide and particulate matter (PM), Milburn pointed out.
"The mayor has been clear. Folks in Toronto should be standing up. It should be electric from day one," he said.
At Queen's Park, DiNovo said a motion has been put forward calling for the electrification of all trains immediately.
http://www.insidetoronto.ca/article/70120
RedRocket191
Senior Member
With all due respect to MPP DiNovo, I suppose London UK is a backwater slum and not a major jurasdiction.
Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
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are they investing in diesel (new rail link projects using diesel technology)? or are you talking about existing infrastructure?
Long Island Mike
Senior Member
Electrifying the ENTIRE GO Rail System...
Everyone: Interesting news about Metrolinx studying the possible electrification of the entire GO system.
If it comes to pass it will be a monumental project with many benefits but will the increased service to be created justify the cost?
The Lakeshore Line should have priority being the backbone of the system but as for electrifying other lines I have questions:
1-Will GO take title to any of these secondary lines from CN and CP?
2-Will GO be able to operate increased service on lines NOT controlled directly by them?
3-Will GO electrify entire lines instead of just partially? Two examples I note are: Georgetown Line-Georgetown or Guelph? Lakeshore West to Hamilton or all the way to Niagara Falls? I feel both could support increased rail service
-the Guelph/Kitchener/Waterloo area and the Niagara Peninsula.
4-Will GO purchase a fleet of MU cars or electric locomotives for this new service? I say that a mix of both would be the way to GO-no pun intended.
HD: That pic you posted is of a single-level NJT Comet 5 at Rahway Station on the Northeast Corridor Line-they are indeed a car that would be adaptable as a single level MU car and answering Kettal's post they DO have both high and low-level platform doors-the center doors are high level only while the end doors have an automatically operated trap allowing the doors to remain closed between stops-earlier versions of commuter cars used by NJT and other commuter railroads had traps and doors which had to remain open between stops in low-level platform territory. The cab car pictured does NOT have an end door where the engineers' compartment actually is.
Insight and thoughts from LI MIKE
Everyone: Interesting news about Metrolinx studying the possible electrification of the entire GO system.
If it comes to pass it will be a monumental project with many benefits but will the increased service to be created justify the cost?
The Lakeshore Line should have priority being the backbone of the system but as for electrifying other lines I have questions:
1-Will GO take title to any of these secondary lines from CN and CP?
2-Will GO be able to operate increased service on lines NOT controlled directly by them?
3-Will GO electrify entire lines instead of just partially? Two examples I note are: Georgetown Line-Georgetown or Guelph? Lakeshore West to Hamilton or all the way to Niagara Falls? I feel both could support increased rail service
-the Guelph/Kitchener/Waterloo area and the Niagara Peninsula.
4-Will GO purchase a fleet of MU cars or electric locomotives for this new service? I say that a mix of both would be the way to GO-no pun intended.
HD: That pic you posted is of a single-level NJT Comet 5 at Rahway Station on the Northeast Corridor Line-they are indeed a car that would be adaptable as a single level MU car and answering Kettal's post they DO have both high and low-level platform doors-the center doors are high level only while the end doors have an automatically operated trap allowing the doors to remain closed between stops-earlier versions of commuter cars used by NJT and other commuter railroads had traps and doors which had to remain open between stops in low-level platform territory. The cab car pictured does NOT have an end door where the engineers' compartment actually is.
Insight and thoughts from LI MIKE
RedRocket191
Senior Member
They have new DMUs for the Gospel Oak - Barking Line on order from Bombardier for delivery next year. If this isn't an investment then I don't know what is.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
@ LI Mike
1) GO has already begun to purchase secondary lines from CN. I doubt that they will part with the main lines.
2) Service increases on freight-controlled lines will run into the same troubles we have today - calls for more tracks and more trace-use fees.
3) I imagine that the report is going to find that there is a minimum number of trains to make the investment worthwhile. The amount of any given line that is electrified would then depend on the desired service level.
4) It would all depend on the service levels. If we run a six car train of bilevel EMUs every 10 minutes then we'll approximate the same capacity we have today in the peak. Anything less and we'll need electric locos to pull full sized trains.
1) GO has already begun to purchase secondary lines from CN. I doubt that they will part with the main lines.
2) Service increases on freight-controlled lines will run into the same troubles we have today - calls for more tracks and more trace-use fees.
3) I imagine that the report is going to find that there is a minimum number of trains to make the investment worthwhile. The amount of any given line that is electrified would then depend on the desired service level.
4) It would all depend on the service levels. If we run a six car train of bilevel EMUs every 10 minutes then we'll approximate the same capacity we have today in the peak. Anything less and we'll need electric locos to pull full sized trains.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
The electrification of all trains immediately? Does the motion come with directions to the magic wand and rainbow-pot-of-gold it would take do that?
toraerach
Active Member
Where is this electricity coming from that they can guarantee that these trains will not produce any emissions/pollution?