MoveOntario 2020: GO Transit Electrification

[G.I. Suck]

This might shed some light as where the 3 stations will be:

http://www.region.durham.on.ca/departments/planning/RTTFFinalReport.pdf

Turn to page 25. It looks like they scrub the current Oshawa GO Station, put in 2 more stops, and then after that, you can't see any further as it goes off the map.

 

[kettal]

Are there even any EMU on the market that have the same platform height as GO?

 

[Hipster Duck]

^Yes.

The Siemens Desiro

Bombardier Talent EMU - same as the O train, only the electric version.

 

[urbanfan89]

Anyone know what the electrification will be?

Common sense dictates it will have to be 25 kV AC at 60 Hz, simply because it is the standard in North America.

I hope they don't invent a complete orphan specification for the sake of it.

 

[EnviroTO]

The Bombardier Talent EMUs come in a low floor height of 598mm which is very compatible with the current GO wheelchair platform height. A GO Bi-Level has a 635mm floor and 457mm step. I think the European platforms shown above are still higher than the current North American platforms which are 203mm above the track. The two bigger problems are that (a) many European rail cars don't meet North American crash-worthiness standards, and (b) the loading gauges for freight and passenger cars are different in North America... a freight car is permitted to a width greater than a passenger car which means elevated platforms are too far from the passenger car on lines which allow freight traffic. Because of this there will likely need to be guantlet tracks or movable platform edges installed.

Ideally we would slowly phase out the Bi-Levels which have low platform boarding and migrate to high platform equivalents such as the ones Montreal and NJ Transit recently ordered and roll out high platforms everywhere. That way boarding would be quicker and safer... especially on VIA trains.

 

[Hipster Duck]

many European rail cars don't meet North American crash-worthiness standards

Actually they exceed them. An FRA-compliant rail cab would fail the European crash test.

 

[EnviroTO]

Actually they exceed them. An FRA-compliant rail cab would fail the European crash test.

That is the opposite of everything I have ever read. The Ottawa Talent cannot operate on railways that have other traffic because they don't meet North American standards. Colorado Railcar was making a FRA compliant DMU for Oregon because they needed one that would pass North American standards. Europe is known for having higher standards for infrastructure which prevents accidents from occuring but lower standards for crash worthiness.

 

[Hipster Duck]

That is the opposite of everything I have ever read. The Ottawa Talent cannot operate on railways that have other traffic because they don't meet North American standards. Colorado Railcar was making a FRA compliant DMU for Oregon because they needed one that would pass North American standards. Europe is known for having higher standards for infrastructure which prevents accidents from occuring but lower standards for crash worthiness.

From page 8 of this report released by Caltrain. Also see Table 1:

The analyses performed to date show that a European CEM vehicle, that is, a vehicle designed to the EN15227 standard, provides an equivalent or superior level of safety for a representative set of grade crossing collisions compared to an FRA-compliant cab car.

 

[CDL.TO]

Hipster D:

That report refers to level crossing train-road vehicle crashes. No one doubts the ability of European rail cars to deal with those. There are plenty of level crossings in Europe, and there are no fundamental differences between road vehicles in Europe and in NA.

But the crash-worthiness that European rail cars don't meet is potential train-train collisions. There are fundamental differences between North American freight trains and locomotives and European freight trains and locomotives. A 50-car freight train being hauled by 3 North American locomotives would crush a Bombardier Talent like a tissue.

Still, it's clear from that report that FRA standards have some real issues. I understand that FRA calls for brute strength, while it looks like the European standards use crumple zones and other such safety measures. Sounds like NA railways are still stuck with the automobile-design philosophy of the 50s and 60s.

From that report you link to, clearly Caltrain doesn't ever share tracks with freight trains, otherwise they wouldn't even be considering rail cars that don't meet North American FRA standards.

 

[EnviroTO]

Grade crossing collisions would mean collisions with road vehicles like cars and buses. If a bus is safe enough to be on the road with other road vehicles it would seem obvious that designing a train to safely collide with road vehicles would be relatively simple. These are the types of freight trains these vehicles need to be able to handle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrlaNfPtUzA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezvsss7jtgw&NR=1

Here is some information on the Colorado Railcar DMU.

http://www.trainweb.org/ultradomes/dmu/compliance.html

 

[Hipster Duck]

You're right, CDL. I guess I didn't factor that in. I guess my only hope now is that either one of Bombardier or Siemens makes EMUs for the North American market that can absorb freight train impacts with more grace (ie make the trains look better). Up until now, FRA-compliancy has tended to emphasize blunt-nosed cabs with tiny windows and hazard stripes that kind of make North American rail cars look like overblown versions of Wall-E.

 

[RedRocket191]

You're right, CDL. I guess I didn't factor that in. I guess my only hope now is that either one of Bombardier or Siemens makes EMUs for the North American market that can absorb freight train impacts with more grace (ie make the trains look better). Up until now, FRA-compliancy has tended to emphasize blunt-nosed cabs with tiny windows and hazard stripes that kind of make North American rail cars look like overblown versions of Wall-E.

The word on the Street is that Bombardier has an EMU design on paper. It's supposed to look like a NJ Transit Comet coach.

 

[Hipster Duck]

The word on the Street is that Bombardier has an EMU design on paper. It's supposed to look like a NJ Transit Comet coach.

Yuck. The MoFo's got all the grace of a BFI dumpster:

 

[kettal]

Too bad it's got the wrong loading height.

 

[RedRocket191]

I've always pictured a GO EMU to be a bilevel cab car with a portion of the intermediate level at the cab end walled off for the electrical equipment. Cars would come in pairs of two with cabs facing opposite directions - just like subway cars - or in a triplet of two powered cars and an unpowered coach between them. Trains could be any length from four to 12 coaches.