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Mosque/Community Centre near Ground Zero - your thoughts?

All equal rights, political motivation, and private property issues aside, this is actually an interesting look at neighbourhoods and perception.

This community centre will be two blocks north of ground zero. Now, I don't know exactly what this area is like (and it may be in the same Manhattan neighbourhood for all I know), but I can imagine that it is mostly skyscrapers crammed against each other, as is lower Manhattan.

In an extraordinarily dense place such as this, one neighbourhood and its streets can change dramatically from one block to the next, moving swifty to another neighbourhood. This centre might be in a completely different locale and have an entirely different feel than the streets adjacent to Ground Zero. Most people who live in non-urban areas see that it's two blocks away and presume it's next door. But so much can change between those two blocks in a city!
 
I don't have a problem with building a community center in a former factory that happens to be nearby ground zero.

However I have a feeling this place is going to be constantly vandalized (or worse) if they go ahead with it, thanks to the media coverage.
 
Like I strongly stated they have the right to build the Mosque but should they? I love all the bleeding hearts who come to it's defense but let's look at an analogy shall we?
I wonder how all the gays & lesbians would feel if the top floor of the Gay Community Centre in Toronto right smack dab in the middle of the Gay Village was to be rented as a Mosque. Placards all stating how homosexuality is an abomination worthy of prison or perhaps worse. Finding out that a bomb went off in a gay bar somewhere and the Muslims took to the street in celebration. Or maybe they could hold large weekly meeting with flyers and guest speakers in the park behind the building.
I would pay to see the reaction of all the hyper aggressive political lesbians of colour when their park is turned into a weekly outdoor prayer meeting, preaching how women are to obey their husband, abortion is murder, and the women still have to pray at the back of the park.
The uproar would be deafining and all the bleeding hearts would "demand action" because the Mosque is promoting hatred which in all legal terms it isn't. People would use the Mosque at Ground Zero as an example of why they should be able to stay but the "that's different" beliefs will come in full force even though it's not different at all.
I want to seriously consider what I have said and then tell me how it would be any different.
 
That's actually an interesting take on it, greenleaf. However, I don't know what Lower Manhattan's like either, so for all I know it could be the exact opposite, but it makes sense. Not that that'll stop people.

ssiguy2 said:
Like I strongly stated they have the right to build the Mosque but should they? I love all the bleeding hearts who come to it's defense but let's look at an analogy shall we?
blahblahblahwhineblahblahstupidremarkblahblahblahlogicalfallacyblahblahblah
I want to seriously consider what I have said and then tell me how it would be any different.
Click to expand...
This is the most idiotic thing I've heard all day, possibly all week. Really, you seem to have absolutely no grasp on reality. Did Muslims in the NYC cheer and take to the streets in celebration when the WTC went down? No, and you're delusional to think so.
Are Muslims any more anti-gay than Christians are? And I guess you're talking about anti-americanism in your seemingly innocent but still hateful metaphor? So, to the real point, are Muslims any more anti-american than your average non-Muslim American? Do you see mosques nearby you putting up posters about how homosexuality is an abomination or the west needs to be punished for it's sin? No. Go get a brain.
And also, the very minute jump in logic that this mosque being built will result in everyone in the neighbourhood being forcibly converted to Islam is kind of proof of bias affecting judgement, as well as providing me with a good laugh.

So, to answer your question, yes it's different. In almost every sense of the word imaginable.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Like I strongly stated they have the right to build the Mosque but should they? I love all the bleeding hearts who come to it's defense but let's look at an analogy shall we?
Click to expand...

Conservatives are the ones using the deaths of the victims of 9/11 as reason to oppose the mosque, and yet they refer to liberals as "bleeding hearts." Typical right-wing hypocrisy.

People who support the mosque do so with their brain, with reason. It is people like you who try support their stance by playing to people's emotions pulling heart strings, like this:

I wonder how all the gays & lesbians would feel if the top floor of the Gay Community Centre in Toronto right smack dab in the middle of the Gay Village was to be rented as a Mosque. Placards all stating how homosexuality is an abomination worthy of prison or perhaps worse. Finding out that a bomb went off in a gay bar somewhere and the Muslims took to the street in celebration. Or maybe they could hold large weekly meeting with flyers and guest speakers in the park behind the building.
I would pay to see the reaction of all the hyper aggressive political lesbians of colour when their park is turned into a weekly outdoor prayer meeting, preaching how women are to obey their husband, abortion is murder, and the women still have to pray at the back of the park.
Click to expand...

You are a typical example of a "bleeding heart." You use an irrational argument that tries to appeal to people's fears and ignores the facts. Homophobia, prayer meetings, pro-life, misogyny - these things don't exist outside of Islam?

Mosques can't be any worse than Churches and their constant preachings and condemnations. No one advertises their religion more than the Christian. After all, the Christians are the ones who are bombing abortion clinics and killing doctors, not the Muslims.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Like I strongly stated they have the right to build the Mosque but should they? I love all the bleeding hearts who come to it's defense but let's look at an analogy shall we?
I wonder how all the gays & lesbians would feel if the top floor of the Gay Community Centre in Toronto right smack dab in the middle of the Gay Village was to be rented as a Mosque. Placards all stating how homosexuality is an abomination worthy of prison or perhaps worse. Finding out that a bomb went off in a gay bar somewhere and the Muslims took to the street in celebration. Or maybe they could hold large weekly meeting with flyers and guest speakers in the park behind the building.
I would pay to see the reaction of all the hyper aggressive political lesbians of colour when their park is turned into a weekly outdoor prayer meeting, preaching how women are to obey their husband, abortion is murder, and the women still have to pray at the back of the park.
The uproar would be deafining and all the bleeding hearts would "demand action" because the Mosque is promoting hatred which in all legal terms it isn't. People would use the Mosque at Ground Zero as an example of why they should be able to stay but the "that's different" beliefs will come in full force even though it's not different at all.
I want to seriously consider what I have said and then tell me how it would be any different.
Click to expand...

...
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Would anyone care if an Irish cultural centre opened up in Manchester City Centre? Probably not. Most people can tell the difference between an Irish person and an IRA lunatic. For some reason, people are unwilling or unable to see a difference between a Muslim person and an Al-Qaeda fanatic.
 
Maybe the Christians should open up a community centre closer to ground zero AND taller than the new mosque.

It's America... wheres the competition?
 
It's just the muslim version of the YMCA. I read somewhere that nearly 10% of all 911 deaths were of muslim background. Interesting.

That woman campaigning against the site--paying for those bus ads etc--well she's Jewish. Enough said.

How about that huge American embassy complex built in Bagdad? Considering the Americans destroyed the city/country for no real reason, why was that allowed to be built? Do you constantly read about Iraqis campaigning for that building to be demolished?
 
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urbandreamer said:
That woman campaigning against the site--paying for those bus ads etc--well she's Jewish. Enough said.
Click to expand...

well, mayor bloomberg is jewish and he supports it. enough said.

[video=youtube;uCIdTwXSaXQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCIdTwXSaXQ[/video]
 
Speaking of ultra right wing zionist types, I've noted that on the list of people barred from entering the UK, there are actually more American white supremacists than there are Islamic extremists. There are also two (I believe) Jewish extremists.
 
I really don't see the big deal with this centre being located two blocks away from the World Trade Center. The centre itself contains a 9/11 memorial, so I don't believe it is a "victory mosque" as some have called it.

However, I am opposed to the many members of the Muslim community condemning the American people as racists, when the site of the 9/11 attacks is obviously a very sensitive area within Manhattan. This is just ANOTHER example of minorities dishing out the race card when they do not get their way. I really wish the media would not be so quick to assume racism/homophobia/bigotry is at the root of every issue. That type of argument is used to stop any sort of healthy debate.

Another bit of information that makes me care less and less for the construction of this site is the chief proponent of this centre (Fiesal Rauf) has made controversial remarks stating the US was an "accessory" to the 9/11 attacks. There's nothing worse when members of the Muslim community defend any act of terrorism, and unfortunately, I've seen this happen myself. In my grade 12 class, a group of Muslim students gave a presentation on why the US was hypocritical about Muslim countries using torture. You think any member of a misunderstood minority group would strive to prove they are not apart of a false and vicious stereotype rather than point the finger.
 
But it *IS* racism. How is it not racism? If you want to get all picky and claim it's not because islam is a religion, not a race, then, okay, call it prejudice, but it sucks either way.

And many academics have pointed to the U.S.' complicity and culpability in the aggregate events that led to 9/11. This doesn't mean that those who attacked the U.S. are blameless or at all justified or whatever.

It's commonly accepted that the actions of countries like England, France, etc. after World War I led to the rise of Hitler and all that came with it (World War II, the Holocaust). Nobody takes this historical argument to mean that Hitler was justified in what he did. It's just that history is important, and bad foreign policy decisions can create monsters.
 
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