Montréal Transit Developments

[nfitz]

Edit: I think you missed the point of the comment you are referring to. Nobody is saying it is officially called a "Metro" he was simply saying it is a Metro.

Pretty sure they said "Even the CDPQ calls it a metro now" (which turned out to not to be true any any of their recent communications).

My only point is that they all keep calling it light rail (or REM). Occasionally someone throws out the word metro - but that's not the norm. It seems pretty clear that someone has taken care to make sure they are using "light rail" and not "light metro" or "red elephant manatee".

 

[SFO-YYZ]

Based on your adamant opinion in the face of a dissenting majority, I think the real point of this thread should be to figure out what exactly happened to you in Montreal that has left you so sore.
The REM is by any stretch a metro. Metropolitan Montreal also has a little over half the population of the GTA, but is on track to have a way more extensive rapid transit system, with better connectivity. Why don't we look at what we can learn from Montreal (and Vancouver) here in Toronto? Should Toronto be approaching pension funds to build the DRL?

Ditto.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Having just visited Montreal last weekend, one thing they definitely still are last place in is accessibility. Trying to get around with a stroller is a nightmare. Where they've added things, it's really half-a$$ed. Examples: Peel has no elevators but has a handicap door into Les Cours de Mont Royal, which leads to the top of a set of stairs . Bonaventure now has an elevator to the platform and accessible fare gates, but there is no way to reach the mezzanine from street level or adjacent buildings without steep stairs or escalators. It wasn't until I had kids that I realized how difficult can be without accessible access, it's really for everyone not just people in wheelchairs.


The one thing REM will have going for it will be full accessibility

 

[nfitz]

Bonaventure now has an elevator to the platform and accessible fare gates, but there is no way to reach the mezzanine from street level or adjacent buildings without steep stairs or escalators. It wasn't until I had kids that I realized how difficult can be without accessible access, it's really for everyone not just people in wheelchairs.

Yeah, Bonaventure was stunning - I knew they had elevators in there, and going from Central Station to the subway (did someone mention it was going to be the largest subway system in Canada?) recently with a large bag was eye-opening.

After the stunning lack of even escalators getting down there, I paid my fare, and remembered after I'd gone through the gates, that the two fare gates on each side of the track aren't connected. So couldn't even use an elevator, and had to roll the bag down the half-flight of stairs and across that mid-level bridge across the tracks, and roll down the other side!

Perhaps Quebec should focus more on accessibility laws, rather making sure that they can fire a bus driver who dares wear a turban!

 

[nephersir7]

Where they've added things, it's really half-a$$ed.

I wouldn't say that things have been half-a$$ed, at least not by the STM.
As far as accessibility is concerned, the STM has more of a tendency of over-engineering rather than half-a$$ing things.

Examples: Bonaventure now has an elevator to the platform and accessible fare gates, but there is no way to reach the mezzanine from street level or adjacent buildings without steep stairs or escalators.

At Bonaventure, the STM installed elevators to the mezzanine in 2008-2009, expecting the AMT would be able to build the rest of the elevators to the bus terminal and street level simultaneously.

For their 3 elevators (metro mezzanine -> terminal, terminal -> street level, street level -> terminal north), the AMT needed to sign a lease with the building above the station (1000 de la Gauchetière), which houses both the bus terminal and the accesses to the metro station.

Because of the complex structural work involved, the negotiations ended up dragging for many years. So much that the plans for the elevators they were planning to install had become outdated in the meantime! Which meant plans being redrawn, and more negotiations!

Work for the elevators finally began in January 2017 and the station will become accessible in early 2019, a full decade after the STM installed its elevators!

Ironically, the AMT (now exo) bus terminal will become pretty much deserted in 2021 when the REM replaces the south shore buses.

Peel has no elevators but has a handicap door into Les Cours de Mont Royal, which leads to the top of a set of stairs

The cours mont-royal handicap door is just the mall owner doing its own thing. It's not part of any plan to make the Peel station more accessible.

The STM is prioritizing McGill (2020), Berri-UQAM (2020) and Place-des-Arts (2021) as the first accessible downtown stations on the green line.

 

[nfitz]

That kind of bureaucratic nightmare is why you need real laws that make accessibility mandatory with fixed deadlines. Suddenly "excuses" disappear.

That they manged to build 1000 de La Gauchetiere as recently as 1992 without wheelchair access is sickening.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I wouldn't say that things have been half-a$$ed, at least not by the STM.
As far as accessibility is concerned, the STM has more of a tendency of over-engineering rather than half-a$$ing things.



At Bonaventure, the STM installed elevators to the mezzanine in 2008-2009, expecting the AMT would be able to build the rest of the elevators to the bus terminal and street level simultaneously.

For their 3 elevators (metro mezzanine -> terminal, terminal -> street level, street level -> terminal north), the AMT needed to sign a lease with the building above the station (1000 de la Gauchetière), which houses both the bus terminal and the accesses to the metro station.

Because of the complex structural work involved, the negotiations ended up dragging for many years. So much that the plans for the elevators they were planning to install had become outdated in the meantime! Which meant plans being redrawn, and more negotiations!

Work for the elevators finally began in January 2017 and the station will become accessible in early 2019, a full decade after the STM installed its elevators!

Ironically, the AMT (now exo) bus terminal will become pretty much deserted in 2021 when the REM replaces the south shore buses.



The cours mont-royal handicap door is just the mall owner doing its own thing. It's not part of any plan to make the Peel station more accessible.

The STM is prioritizing McGill (2020), Berri-UQAM (2020) and Place-des-Arts (2021) as the first accessible downtown stations on the green line.

I meant the stairs are inside the mall. In Ontario the mall owner couldn't add an accessible entrance that isn't accessible. It was more the statement that Quebec as a whole was doing it half-a$$ed, not specifically STM

 

[nfitz]

I'm not sure if I missed an earlier part of the discussion, but with the light rail in Montreal, I've assumed they are grade-separating the extension to the south shore (but perhaps I'm wrong). But what about the existing section of the Deux-Montagnes commuter train, which has a lot of level crossing? What's the plan there? And for the new spurs into West Island?

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I'm not sure if I missed an earlier part of the discussion, but with the light rail in Montreal, I've assumed they are grade-separating the extension to the south shore (but perhaps I'm wrong). But what about the existing section of the Deux-Montagnes commuter train, which has a lot of level crossing? What's the plan there? And for the new spurs into West Island?

I believe it's all to be grade separated, the full automation would require it. Given Edmonton's experience with it's NAIT extension, it seems automation+ level crossings isn't quite ready for prime time.

 

[nfitz]

I believe it's all to be grade separated, the full automation would require it.

I find that hard to believe once you are off the island - and I don't see any sign of any construction in photos. I'd think that economically, it would be more effective to terminate the line a bit shorter, and run shuttle buses than start grade separations given the number of suburban streets involved.

Presumably someone knows details.

Hmm, though looks like they are knocking down a lot of houses near Grand-Moulin ... perhaps they are indeed going the fully monty.

https://rem.info/en/works-info/demolition-work-grand-moulin-station-sector

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I find that hard to believe once you are off the island - and I don't see any sign of any construction in photos. I'd think that economically, it would be more effective to terminate the line a bit shorter, and run shuttle buses than start grade separations given the number of suburban streets involved.

Presumably someone knows details.

Hmm, though looks like they are knocking down a lot of houses near Grand-Moulin ... perhaps they are indeed going the fully monty.

https://rem.info/en/works-info/demolition-work-grand-moulin-station-sector

There's lots of technical details here: https://www.cdpqinfra.com/en/reseau_electrique_metropolitain

Many of the docs are in French only though

 

[Kyle Campbell]

This particular presentation shows a lot of the new grade seperations (French only, but I think most here would understand the diagrams)

https://www.cdpqinfra.com/sites/default/files/pdf/rem_-_portes_ouvertes_-_plans_implantation_laval-deux-montagnes-brossard_0_1.pdf

 

[nfitz]

This particular presentation shows a lot of the new grade seperations (French only, but I think most here would understand the diagrams)

https://www.cdpqinfra.com/sites/default/files/pdf/rem_-_portes_ouvertes_-_plans_implantation_laval-deux-montagnes-brossard_0_1.pdf

Gosh, looks more like they are elevating portions of that line in the suburbs, rather than typical grade separations. That will yield some long closures.

I'm not sure what they are doing with Boulevard de Lac though ... perhaps that's an overpass?

 

[nephersir7]

I'm not sure if I missed an earlier part of the discussion, but with the light rail in Montreal, I've assumed they are grade-separating the extension to the south shore (but perhaps I'm wrong). But what about the existing section of the Deux-Montagnes commuter train, which has a lot of level crossing? What's the plan there? And for the new spurs into West Island?

Entirely grade separated

Here's the map:
Orange = viaduct/bridge/overpass
Blue = at grade/embankment
Green = underground

Deux-Montagnes Branch:
Underpasses will be built so that Toupin St and Sunnybrooke St. can pass under the at-grade REM tracks.
The REM will run elevated around Roxboro-Pierrefonds station

It will likely run on an embankment past Sainte-Dorothée Station, possibly in Deux-Montagnes too

West Island Branch:
Completely elevated

South shore branch:
From Central Station, it will run on the existing rail viaduct until it hits Shannon street.
From Shannon, it splits onto its own overpass over De La Commune street and starts ascending as it crosses the Lachine Canal:

South of the Canal, it crosses over the rail tracks and runs entirely elevated until Nun's Island, where it crosses above the highway

Then it continues at grade in the A-10 median, passes under Highway 30, and then passes over the southbound lanes to reach the terminal station

 

[nfitz]

Entirely grade separated

Here's the map:

Ah, that's a good map!

Gosh, that's a lot of elevated, especially through quiet suburban areas (rather than down arteries). And no sign of sound barriers in the elevated render (but in an at-grade render?)

Is there no residential uproar? I'd think the noise would be significantly louder (and much more frequent) than before.