LemonCondo
Active Member
REM Candiac?
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Montréal Transit Developments
- Thread starter Ansem
- Start date
REM Candiac?
duty free
New Member
the Montreal REM >>> GO RER even in the planning stage, never mind actual implementation.
very disappointing Toronto / Ontario isn't building a similar type project.
Smarttrack (despite its unfortunate name) could have easily been the GTA equivalent to this project.
very disappointing Toronto / Ontario isn't building a similar type project.
Smarttrack (despite its unfortunate name) could have easily been the GTA equivalent to this project.
nfitz
Superstar
REM isn't really comparable to GO though. GO is more comparable to EXO - though I can't comment, as I don't know what the timeframe is for EXO to achieve frequent service.
REM is more equivalent to the Ontario Line; or a low-capacity legacy Toronto or Montreal subway/metro.
There's a lot more rapid-transit projects underway currently in Toronto than Montreal. Twelve with shovels in the ground by my count; 14 if you include the Line 4 extension and the Line 5 extension from Renforth to Pearson that haven't started. As far as I know, there's only 2 underway in Montreal with shovels in the ground. REM and the Blue Line extension.
rbt
Senior Member
Were you trying to zoom on the thumbnail. Some websites are stupid that way and send you a tiny image rather than the full size one.
Direct link without the website doing fancy things.
duty free
New Member
Deux-Montagnes, which became the main branch of Montreal REM was a former EXO line.
why couldn't Stouffville GO for example become an express metro line?
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
Maybe let's see what actually gets built for GO before we decide it's a failure
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
SmartTrack was nothing more than a John Tory rebranding of the existing GO RER plans, with a few more downtown stations, that he cynically invented to win an election as people weren't paying attention to GO RER. Plus an airport branch that got cancelled immediately since it could never actually be built.
Also if you look at the plans for Exhibition Station, it's clear they are planning for GO/TTC fare integration, both services exist in the same fare-paid zone, behind the same fare gates, which was supposedly the key idea behind smarttrack. What part of smarttrack, other than the airport extension do you not think is happening? Because the vast majority of it was already part of GO RER, and the parts that were not are the 5 extra stations we're going to build. The idea they are somehow distinct is hilarious, the reality always was that SmartTrack was fundamentally nothing more than an effort to lobby metrolinx for more downtown GO stations.
ARG1
Senior Member
uh... no
Don't get me wrong, the REM is an INCREDIBLE project, and its amazing that Montreal has a new line to be proud of. That being said, I can't stress the fact its only great by the standards of the low bar that North America has set for itself. When we actually consider its impacts to the regional network as a whole, it can't be overstated just how damaging the closure of the DM line, and how assuming ideal outcomes, its a downgrade over the previous mode. If Montreal was a city in any european or east asian country, Montreal would've gotten some RER-like treatment, with significant double tracking work, improved stations with level boarding, and improvements and electrification work to SJ and Mascouche Line trains (plus improved signalling for tighter headways in the tunnel). And, it would've left the Mont Royal Tunnel open so that VIA HFR could through run through Gare Centrale, rather than having to back out, or serve some station in the outskirts of the city like Canora (which is what will likely happen now). What the REM represents is a moderate attempt at making a more budgeted regional railway network by reusing as much existing infrastructure and corridors as possible to make a perfectly great service assuming an isolated context.
In fact, let's compare the two projects shall we, with the details we have today, shall we?
Frequency: The Montreal REM can run at a maximum frequency of every 90s. However outside of the core section, much of the system isn't going to look like this; the system will have many different branches, and those branches will have reduced headways. Off peak, the Brossard branch is planned to have 5-7.5m headways, the DM branch will also have 7.5m headways, and the airport and west island branches will have 15m headways. Granted, outside of the airport branch which is constrained by the single track tunnel, the limit could be expanded to a max headways of 3.33 between the DM and and West Island branches (assuming the airport gets 4tph), with brossard getting a full 90s headways, however it might be a while before they get that many trains, and even then running so many trains that close together could be a massive operational headache.
Meanwhile with GO: DB want to implement ETCS Level 2 on the entire network (at least the parts owned by GO), which means on the core electrified sections we can see up to 5m headways PER LINE. What we also know is that this is part of DB's strategy of better utilizing the fleet, run much shorter consists at much higher headways in order to generate more demand (due to higher frequencies) and allow for higher acceleration from the electric locos due to the smaller trains. So frequency wise, whilst the REM is better, its only barely better.
Next, Speed. I'm sorry but outside of maybe core sections with a ton of stops, the REM isn't beating GO in terms of speed. The only real metric that might swing things in the REM's favour is maybe the fact that GO will have longer dwell times at stations, and maybe slower acceleration during the elec loco days, but it won't be a significant difference overall.
Capacity, again this is a complete wipeout. The way GO is designed, long term it can accommodate 12 car bilevel EMUs possibly running at 5 minute headways on all lines (this is before we consider quad track corridors). When compared to the REM, GO can basically be considered to have infinite capacity.
Rider comfort: I'm sorry but longitudinal seating with hard plastic seats isn't going to beat what GO has, not to mention GO having things like onboard washrooms.
Stations: This is the one area where REM has the distinct advantage, with all of the stations being fully enclosed and weather protected, especially with Platform Screen Doors.
Here's the thing: The Light Metro technology that the REM is using is great at granting flexible trains that can take tighter curves and allow for more flexible operations, such as running on concrete viaducts, nimbly moving off of highway ROWs, and building smaller and cheaper tunnels. This makes sense for the REM because its not just a rebuild of the DM line, its also 3 brand new lines running on their own ROW that could not be replicated by mainline heavy rail without a lot of fudging. This doesn't apply when we're just talking about upgrading existing rail lines. By all means, converting GO RER to a massive REM network is something that will result in a lot more money being spent, for something that will in almost every case be inferior.
jje1000
Senior Member
Yeah I don’t get the GO- REM comparison.
If anything the Ontario Line is the clear Metrolinx copy of the REM down to even the general train and station aesthetics, though it remains to be seen if they can copy REM’s relatively streamlined construction (and its fortuitous reuse of some cruicial pieces of infrastructure).
If anything the Ontario Line is the clear Metrolinx copy of the REM down to even the general train and station aesthetics, though it remains to be seen if they can copy REM’s relatively streamlined construction (and its fortuitous reuse of some cruicial pieces of infrastructure).
LemonCondo
Active Member
Hey if we wanted to spend the money on it we could have that too. The Japanese do it...
nfitz
Superstar
Yes I know about Deux-Montagnes line. I've been riding it since the 1980s - two rebuilds ago.
I'm really not sure I see the difference between REM and GO RER for the Deux-Montagne branch west of Bois-Franc where the branches split off. Both will have 15-minute frequencies - though REM has lower capacity.
REM is an interesting hybrid - it's essentially light-metro for the 26-km section for the 13-stations from Bois-Franc through the South shore. It's quite comparable to the 15-station, 16-km first phase of the Ontario Line from Science Centre station to Exhibition station - the biggest difference being station spacing.
The remaining 50-km of the REM seems like RER commuter rail, similar to the 230-km or so of the 40+ station, 15-minute all-day GO service that's now under construction on five lines (not including the 50-km 7-station Milton line that the federal government promised funding to). Though I'm a bit concerned that the capacity is so much lower - though there's more potential to add frequent service on these REM branches - increase from every 15 minutes to every 5 minutes or so I believe)
It's certainly a major step forward for Montreal! I can't wait to ride it.
ARG1
Senior Member
We could but that's not in the plans at all. I wanted to stick with what's planned, what's provisioned, and what could be done with minimal time and money.
nfitz
Superstar
Surely they aren't running plastic longitudinal seating on the trains that run out to Deux-Montagnes! I can see it from Dorval to the South Shore
The Deux-Montagnes trains already have bathrooms - though I suppose if you stick bathrooms in all the stations, then that might mitigate a change.
ARG1
Senior Member
Its plastic longitudinal seating all the way to DM. They really want to squeeze out as much capacity as they possibly could from those trains.
drum118
Superstar
July 29
Had my first ride on the line and not as fast I Thought it would be.
I clase his as an elect train or a comuter rail based on the distance between stops. Just 20 minute from end to end with inbound being longer.
Nice view of VIA yard with 2 of the new fleet in it
Had my first ride on the line and not as fast I Thought it would be.
I clase his as an elect train or a comuter rail based on the distance between stops. Just 20 minute from end to end with inbound being longer.
Nice view of VIA yard with 2 of the new fleet in it