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Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

Palma said:
Why would the TBM be needed for the FInch LRT? Is it not surface LRT? I don't remember seeing them along St. Clair but then I was not necessarily around there during that time
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It won't be needed, the connection at finch west station is underground but the LRT station is very shallow and only underground through the actual intersection, it will not be a bored tunnel.
 
quicksilver said:
The Sheppard East LRT line, if built prior to the SRT shut down, has the ability to provide for some (not all) of the lost east/west capacity between the core and Scarborough. No it's not the same route, but could be useful to a meaningful portion of SRT riders.
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You do realize the SELRT was never planned to go to STC, specifically to avoid it having the ridership numbers that the Sheppard subway extension would have had so they could choose LRT on this route right?
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
You do realize the SELRT was never planned to go to STC, specifically to avoid it having the ridership numbers that the Sheppard subway extension would have had so they could choose LRT on this route right?
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That doesn't even make sense ... the Sheppard subway numbers east of Don Mills was still well inside LRT range. Heck, the subway numbers WEST of Don Mills was well within LRT range!
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
You do realize the SELRT was never planned to go to STC, specifically to avoid it having the ridership numbers that the Sheppard subway extension would have had so they could choose LRT on this route right?
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The numbers of riders east of Don Mills for 2031 were in LRT ranges. There was a plan and I expect it will still take place, that a branch line off the SELRT to STC will be be built. As to final route, that still to be determined.

Again the numbers you claim that go to/from STC to justify a subway are not there now or 30 years down the road. Just look at the ridership for 190 that stands at 10,100 a day at a cost of $17,800 using 7-11 buses a day. There is no real number of riders getting off/on at STC, but I would say off hand based on what I see, 5,000 would be close.

Therefore you want a subway to STC that will carry 20,000 day, when it fails to meet even BRT standards by 2031. STC will get LRT even though the numbers fail to support it.

Again, unless you and your supports are willing to pickup the ""FULL"" Building and operation cost personal on a yearly base to built this white elephant to STC so I and the rest of the transit riders don't have to pay a cent for it, since we want better service elsewhere, go for it.
 
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drum118 said:
The numbers of riders east of Don Mills for 2031 were in LRT ranges. There was a plan and I expect it will still take place, that a branch line off the SELRT to STC will be be built. As to final route, that still to be determined.

Again the numbers you claim that go to/from STC to justify a subway are not there now or 30 years down the road. Just look at the ridership for 190 that stands at 10,100 a day at a cost of $17,800 using 7-11 buses a day. There is no real number of riders getting off/on at STC, but I would say off hand based on what I see, 5,000 would be close.

Therefore you want a subway to STC that will carry 20,000 day, when it fails to meet even BRT standards by 2031. STC will get LRT even though the numbers fail to support it.

Again, unless you and your supports are willing to pickup the ""FULL"" Building and operation cost personal on a yearly base to built this white elephant to STC so I and the rest of the transit riders don't have to pay a cent for it, since we want better service elsewhere, go for it.
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I find it incomprehensible that the wealthiest city in Canada can't afford to finish one subway line.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I find it incomprehensible that the wealthiest city in Canada can't afford to finish one subway line.
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Because we are busy working on 7 other lines?

It's not a question of ability. But it seems clear that everyone - with perhaps the exception of Rob Ford, and noted transit expert (whatever his Christian name is) Hudak, that the demand isn't there. I'm not sure why it's even up for debate after the TTC report that clearly demonstrates how the projected ridership that justified the start of the line back in the 1990s, just wasn't valid.
 
nfitz said:
Because we are busy working on 7 other lines?

It's not a question of ability. But it seems clear that everyone - with perhaps the exception of Rob Ford, and noted transit expert (whatever his Christian name is) Hudak, that the demand isn't there. I'm not sure why it's even up for debate after the TTC report that clearly demonstrates how the projected ridership that justified the start of the line back in the 1990s, just wasn't valid.
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If we can debate the numbers in the past we can certainly debate the current numbers, especially based on the population projections and the threat of peak oil.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
If we can debate the numbers in the past we can certainly debate the current numbers, especially based on the population projections and the threat of peak oil.
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I have no doubt about your ability to diver the discussion based on what you read about in today's news. We seemed to take this oil threat more seriously back in 1973. After 40 years though ... really?
 
A Perfect Storm of Misinformation and Anger

Paleo said:
When confronted with numbers and facts that are incompatible with ones beliefs, throw out a distraction...
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How true.

Subway the clear choice at loud Scarborough transit meeting
Published On Thu Mar 08 2012
Amy Dempsey
Staff Reporter

To say it was a hot debate is putting it mildly.

Speaking at a townhall on transit in the disputed territory of Scarborough Thursday night, Toronto Transit Commission chair Karen Stintz was, predictably, hit with a round of jeers, boos and insults.

“Subways! Subways!†the crowd roared, drowning out Stintz’s pro-LRT remarks. “Not glorified streetcars!â€

“Resign!†some urged.

The debate put Stintz and Gordon Chong, author of the Sheppard Subway report, together on the same public stage for the first time since the subway/LRT debate exploded. The panel, organized by the Toronto Taxpayers Coalition, also included former city manager John Morand and Toronto Sun columnist Sue-Ann Levy.

Stintz argued there is no way to fund a subway without raising taxes, challenging Chong to say where in his plan there is an explanation of how it would be funded.

“Where?†she demanded.

“Are you thick or what?†Chong replied, to enormous applause. “If this mayor and this council would open their minds to all the potential funding tools available we could not only fund this line but a whole network.â€

The packed audience at the Scarborough Civic Centre was largely — and loudly — in favour of a subway system. The crowd became so rowdy that half a dozen police officers showed up, a precautionary measure.

The Star spoke to three attendees before the debate — one in favour of a subway, one for LRT and one still on the fence — and then checked in afterward to see if the townhall changed their minds.
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http://www.thestar.com/news/article...oice-at-loud-scarborough-transit-meeting?bn=1


Klassy. The Toronto Taxpayer Coalition, Gordon Chong AND Sue-Ann Levy? Karen Stintz should have known better than to walk into a thinly disguised lynching party.

Karen Stintz jeered at transit meeting with Scarborough residents
Natalie Alcoba Mar 9, 2012 – 12:30 AM ET

Karen Stintz took her pro light-rail message to the people of Scarborough Thursday night and felt the wrath of residents who refuse to accept anything less than a subway.

A couple hundred people packed into the council chambers at the Scarborough Civic Centre for a meeting and debate organized by the Toronto Taxpayers Coalition. Ms. Stintz had started her evening promoting LRTs at another, much smaller, transit meeting in Malvern organized by Councillor Raymond Cho.

The civic centre crowd was dramatically more hostile to her pitch, booing and heckling the freshly reaffirmed chair of the Toronto Transit Commission and calling on her to resign.

“You’re stealing money from the residents of Scarborough, you’re stealing from me,†hollered Tom Varesh, 38, who has spent most of his life in Scarborough. He calculated that since Scarborough represents one-quarter of Toronto’s population, it should get $2.1-billion of the $8.4-billion the province has earmarked for the city’s public transit network.

“You have underground trains in the rest of Toronto and you have the audacity to say we can’t build you a subway.â€

Ms. Stintz said that Scarborough is getting more than $3-billion in new and improved transit, in the form of an Eglinton LRT, the Scarborough RT and, if approved, the Sheppard LRT for which she is advocating.

“We don’t have a funding plan for a Sheppard subway. There is no plan, and it’s not about the private sector,†Ms. Stintz told the crowd.

“The private sector only does things when they get paid, and we need a way to pay them, and we don’t have a way to pay them right now.â€

The meetings come as the transit debate in Toronto moves into its next phase: what to do on Sheppard Avenue. City council last month struck a panel of experts to investigate if extending the subway, or continuing the line with surface light rail, will best meet the needs of residents.

The panel is expected to report back by March 21, when city council will vote on the issue. Mayor Rob Ford is pushing for a subway, but questions remain about how the city would pay for it.

City council has already endorsed a plan to use provincial money to build a predominantly tunnelled line under Eglinton Avenue, with a portion in the eastern end rising to the surface, in addition to a light rail line on Finch Avenue.

The meeting included Dr. Gordon Chong, who is Mayor Rob Ford’s point person on subways, Sue-Ann Levy, a columnist for the Toronto Sun and John Morand, former city manager at the city of Toronto, who spoke in favour of subways.

Mr. Chong implored Councillor Stintz to give the private sector six to 12 months before making a decision. Mr. Chong, a former vice-chairman of the TTC, is pushing for a public-private partnership; a report he wrote that was released last month concluded that financing for the Sheppard subway extension is feasible, and that various revenue sources such as taxes, tolls and parking levies, should be considered.

“A public-private partnership doesn’t give you money, all subways and all transit is built with tax dollars,†said Ms. Stintz.

Ms. Stintz challenged Mr. Chong to spell out the funding plan for the Sheppard subway.

“Are you thick or what?†said Mr. Chong. “If this Mayor and council would open their minds to all the potential funding tools that are available, we could fund not only this line but a whole network.â€

Long-time Scarborough resident Gordon Spittal, 68, told Ms. Stintz that he would rather the city spend the $1-billion of provincial and federal money earmarked for Sheppard on extending the subway to Victoria Park Avenue. “And leave Sheppard alone for 10 years until we get the money†to go further, he said. Other residents raised concerns about the impact a surface LRT would have on businesses along Sheppard.

“Karen it seems like you’re joking around, you don’t know what we’re going through. Why don’t we get out of the political side, and be more human to each other, build a subway for the people out there,†said Allison Scott, a long time resident, in her 50s.

Over at Blessed Mother Teresa Catholic School, in Malvern, local residents seemed more receptive to Ms. Stintz’s proposals.

One woman, who declined to give her name, pointed out that a Sheppard LRT would reach her neighbourhood, while Mr. Ford’s subway plan stops at the Scarborough Town Centre.

“What about us, we’re just left hanging in the air,†she said. “Something is better than nothing.â€
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http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/09/karen-stintz/

Further note:

Madhattress and David Hains have a nice live tweet of the whole thing under the hashtag #fakeTTCparty
http://twitter.com/#!/madhatressTO
http://twitter.com/#!/DavidHains
 
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