Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[Rainforest]

Im kinda of excited to see what this election will bring.
1.Tory will not limp in with his current plan or he's in for trouble. He needs Eglinton East shored up.
2. If Ford runs I wouldn't be shocked to see the SSE promised to Sheppard with another stop at Lawrence using the Smarttrack fund & possible Sheppard East LRT funds
3. I highly doubt any serious downtown candidate will be showing up with the same transfer LRT plan for Scarborough this time if they have any intentions of gaining voters.

I agree but only partly:

1) SSE is a high-profile project, any attempt to kill it would be suicidal for any municipal or provincial candidate. On the other hand, we will likely to see attempts to restore the Lawrence station, Sheppard station, or both, whether Fords runs or not. Even some of those who oppose SSE in principle, will not oppose to those stations being put back.

2) Eglinton East is not an electoral issue. There is no public opposition to it, but it does not have any hard-die enthusiasts either. I personally like it and want to see it built ASAP, but this is not something that can affect political careers.

3) The existing Sheppard LRT plan has proven to be unpopular with the locals, and noone will promote it, but noone will be in a rush to propose a subway or any other alternative, either. We will have to take a pause on Sheppard.

Because of (2) and (3), I am starting to think that it would be a good idea to shift the funding from Sheppard East to Eglinton East and build it in the next 5-7 years. Eglinton East will go smoothly, and the transit funds will begin to work.

Sheppard, on the other hand, needs more funding than $1 billion allocated to it, in order to build a useful and popular line, be it a subway, advanced LRT, or ICTS.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Put ICTS in the Sheppard tunnel and extend it as ICTS to Rouge Hill.

 

[nfitz]

Why was the Sheppard line even built?

There was the politics, that Drum pointed out. But there was also early 1990s projections about growth of both residential and commercial in the downtown North York and Scarborough Town Centre that ended up being completely flawed. Both had had some residential growth, but the commercial growth hasn't happened. There's been little of anything at Scarborough Town Centre for years.

One of the reasons in the change in growth was amalgamation in 1997. North York and Scarborough both had much lower commercial property tax rates than Toronto, to encourage growth. That ended once everyone got the same rates.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

My picture is rather coarse, in reality the curves may be more gentle. There are no deep foundations in those areas that would force very tight curves.

Generally, LRT trains can handle tighter curves as well as steeper grades than wide subway trains. That ability might not matter much if the line stays on/under Sheppard, but the detour to Scarborough Centre should be easier to handle if we use LRT cars. Same goes for the possible future extensions east of STC and west of Downsview, the ability to negotiate tighter turns might save the construction costs even if we want substantial grade-separated sections on this line.

Understood. Sounds like LRT might be the better option for Shepard East. I wonder if the politicians will see it that way though.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Or lower those tax rates and encourage business to move to these nodal town centres to justify extending the subway.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Or lower those tax rates and encourage business to move to these nodal town centres to justify extending the subway.

They should have different rates according to the ward the property is in. Of course, if a ward wants lower tax rates, they can do without sidestreet maintenance, sidewalks, parks, libraries, buses, police, fire, etc. that only have to do with their ward.

 

[11th]

I think this is fantastic and a great compromise. I especially like the use of high floor LRT. My only question is the sharp curves at agincourt and STC, can the LRT vehicles handle that?

I think Scarborough would care less whether it's LRT-vehicle or wide-width subway running on Line 4 / Sheppard. Tell them they are getting a "subway" (completely grade-separated) and they will buy into it.

 

[11th]

They should have different rates according to the ward the property is in. Of course, if a ward wants lower tax rates, they can do without sidestreet maintenance, sidewalks, parks, libraries, buses, police, fire, etc. that only have to do with their ward.

There is always another way to widen the tax rate difference other than decreasing it for some wards/area; but you don't want businesses skipping the 416 to the 905 either.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think Scarborough would care less whether it's LRT-vehicle or wide-width subway running on Line 4 / Sheppard. Tell them they are getting a "subway" (completely grade-separated) and they will buy into it.

Agreed.

I agree but only partly:

1) SSE is a high-profile project, any attempt to kill it would be suicidal for any municipal or provincial candidate. On the other hand, we will likely to see attempts to restore the Lawrence station, Sheppard station, or both, whether Fords runs or not. Even some of those who oppose SSE in principle, will not oppose to those stations being put back.

2) Eglinton East is not an electoral issue. There is no public opposition to it, but it does not have any hard-die enthusiasts either. I personally like it and want to see it built ASAP, but this is not something that can affect political careers.

3) The existing Sheppard LRT plan has proven to be unpopular with the locals, and noone will promote it, but noone will be in a rush to propose a subway or any other alternative, either. We will have to take a pause on Sheppard.

Because of (2) and (3), I am starting to think that it would be a good idea to shift the funding from Sheppard East to Eglinton East and build it in the next 5-7 years. Eglinton East will go smoothly, and the transit funds will begin to work.

Sheppard, on the other hand, needs more funding than $1 billion allocated to it, in order to build a useful and popular line, be it a subway, advanced LRT, or ICTS.

I think the PCs can get away with killing the subway, the Liberals can't.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Shepppard East LRT is unmentioned in the 2017 budget

 

[salsa]

Shepppard East LRT is unmentioned in the 2017 budget

Neither does the prospect of LRT through Brampton.

 

[nfitz]

Shepppard East LRT is unmentioned in the 2017 budget

It's examples only. They only list some that are either under construction or under procurement. Both Hamilton and Hurontario had RFQs issued in the last year, and will have RFPs issued in the next year.

Also not listed is the Spadina subway extension.

There's a bit of mention of other projects where there is planning and design work going on (this was long-finished for Spadina and Sheppard East), and they do mention Yonge North subway and the Downtown subway line. But surprisingly no mention of the Scarborough Subway extension - which is still in the planning/design stage.

Though there is the throwaway inclusion of "rapid transit projects in the GTHA"

Whole thing seems completely meaningless ... seems to be pretty much carry on as planned.

 

[OneCity]

It's examples only. They only list some that are either under construction or under procurement. Both Hamilton and Hurontario had RFQs issued in the last year, and will have RFPs issued in the next year.

Also not listed is the Spadina subway extension.

There's a bit of mention of other projects where there is planning and design work going on (this was long-finished for Spadina and Sheppard East), and they do mention Yonge North subway and the Downtown subway line. But surprisingly no mention of the Scarborough Subway extension - which is still in the planning/design stage.

Though there is the throwaway inclusion of "rapid transit projects in the GTHA"

Whole thing seems completely meaningless ... seems to be pretty much carry on as planned.

Yes, its carry on as planned until he election. They did mention in the budget talk that they are in conversations with Federal government regarding these phase 2 transit projects. So once we start to inch closer to the election we are likely see the phase 2 transit promises start to fly.

Don't think Sheppard will be a priority whether they leave funding commitment in place or not.

 

[am29]

How feasible would it be to retroactively convert the Sheppard Stubway into fitting LRT vehicle and that way would produce a transferless rout along Sheppard?

 

[amnesiajune]

How feasible would it be to retroactively convert the Sheppard Subway into fitting LRT vehicle and that way would produce a transferless rout along Sheppard?

It's feasible but not really worth the cost. The tunnels aren't large enough for the LRTs being used on the rest of the TTC network (subway tunnels are ~3.5 meters in diameter, LRT tunnels for the Flexities are ~3.7 meters in diameter), and the platforms in the stations are way too high.

The TTC could adopt some technology that uses both low floors & pantographs, and high floors & third rail. They could also make Sheppard a high-floor LRT. But in either of those cases, it would still need some retrofitting and it would be an orphan technology.