steveintoronto
Superstar
Are you referring to dice, or perhaps something even more mysterious?
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Light
Active Member
Was just in Taipei and Kaohsiung, Taiwan, and each has an amazingly efficient and reliable subway fare payment system that is automated and can be topped up at any 7-11 convenience store. They also have banks of automated ticket dispensers which I did not use so I cannot comment about them. But what I did use I found superior to the system in Toronto, and significantly cheaper too. Systems similar to the one in Taiwan are used in other Asian cities. Not sure if the TTC had ever looked into them, but Toronto is really backwards in light of what they have in Taiwan.
NotMathematical
Active Member
steveintoronto
Superstar
And yet another case of concession fares not being recognized. Usually they are, but if something else glitches, you're charged the full fare by default.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Light
Active Member
Thanks steveintoronto! Yes(!) that's the card! Amazingly, it's universal on the island, so it would be akin to a province-wide Presto for all bus/subway/local train systems. Also, the card charges for actual distance traveled as opposed to one-price which is more fair. Commuters simply wave/place it over the sensor upon entry into and exit from a subway station, and the screen displays the fare deducted and remaining balance. There is no subway station staff involvement unless a card had insufficient funds upon exit, which I saw happen once/twice, and it seems that all that the commuter would do is walk up to the booth and settle. No interruption to pedestrian flow at all.
The card can also be used to purchase anything from 7/11 and the other convenience store chains. Not sure if Presto plans to be as extensive but it would be nice. I saw no line ups at subway stations due to folks trying to buy tokens/fares (common sight in TTC) commuters just wave the card and presto, move on!
yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
Is it just me or do others think that sometimes there's way too much eurocentric thinking when it comes to transit? At times I wonder why we didn't look at Asian systems for fare collection systems as they are most likely designed for high efficiency, high volume and fast transactions. Going off topic slightly, I've always seen the TTC as a traditional North American transit culture; think the old legacy big cities like Chicago & NY with high frequency service and high volume service. As such, a European transit culture doesn't seem to fit in with what we have especially on terms of frequency and volume. Maybe it's just me and having to go on a mini-rant but I think the Presto/TTC should've looked at adopting fare card technology from Asia rather than Europe strictly. East and West, a best of both worlds? 
yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
Start at at 1:48 for fare gate action:
I'm pretty sure that Presto and the TTC's fare gates would've already had a meltdown 2 seconds in In seriousness though, this is what we probably we need at Union station.
I'm pretty sure that Presto and the TTC's fare gates would've already had a meltdown 2 seconds in
In seriousness though, this is what we probably we need at Union station.TheTigerMaster
Superstar
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/to...he-unreliable-presto-rechargers-warn-of-chaos
Metrolinx still has no idea why the reload machines are breaking.
Metrolinx still has no idea why the reload machines are breaking.
cplchanb
Senior Member
seriously, why is there so much incompetence at all levels when it comes to presto? Is this the first machine ever for this manufacturer? Shouldnt Germans be good at this??! How can they
take a proven tech thats been around for decades and still screw it up with teething issues that shouldve been solved a long time ago? Either that or the presto software is bugged to hell by incompetent
programming done by recent uni grads with little exp.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Presto is a hodgepodge of payment technologies tied together with duct tape. It's no surprise it doesn't work well. I wonder if we would've been better if designing something from the ground up for Ontario.
cplchanb
Senior Member
but isnt this exactly what they did? try to build their own proprietary system? 20/20 they probably shouldve just bought the rights to octopus, oyster or whatever japan uses.
At least a proven system that they can customise to suit Presto....
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Metrolinx/GO couldn't even get their GO automated ticketing machines to work in a way that any system should work in the 2016. As a Redditor once said (slightly censored for PG):
ilovedillpicklesThe Entertainment District 6 points 1 year ago
"Enter your destination:"
"O" *searching*
"A" *searching*
"K" *searching*
"V" *searching*
"Are you sure this is where you would like to go?" *yes*
"Enter amount of riders:"
"1 adult" *calculating cost*
"1 child" *calculating cost*
"How would you like to pay"
"Debit" *please wait - initializing payment system*
F**k this, I'll just take my chances, train is pulling in
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/co...n_station_39_mins_before_my_go_train/cvuwp7m/
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That's a year ago - have they fixed the issue? Nope. And of course, it predates even that: https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/2hk8c6/union_really_needs_more_than_3_ticket_machines/
Tells you all you need to know about their idea of what excellence is.
On Presto - why isn't there even a mobile app? Like what year are we in again?
https://www.prestocard.ca/en/about/FAQ/about-presto
You have been looking for how many years?
AoD
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yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
Nippon Signal built the system to be compatible for both Suica and Pasmo cards (pg. 4):
http://www.signal.co.jp/uploads/ar_2007.pdf
http://www.signal.co.jp/uploads/ar_2007.pdf
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
That's an oversimplification that's not quite accurate.
It is true that Presto is a unique system for Ontario. That was necessary because the operation of transit in Ontario is rather unusual, because we have multiple agencies each individually collecting and processing their own fares. There wasn't an off the shelf system that could handle that, so something unique for Ontario had to be built. The Oyster system you worked definitely would not have worked.
Unfortunately the system being "unique" doesn't mean it was built from the ground up for Ontario. My understanding is that Presto combines elements of several existing payment technologies, rather than being totally unique. Ideally this combining existing payment technologies would have saved money, but I suspect that all these different payment technologies interacting is the source of Presto's unreliability. Perhaps it would have been better to truly start from scratch, rather than incorporate various other technologies.