W. K. Lis
Superstar
Noticed something in how to use PRESTO when transferring on buses and streetcars.
So the system is already on a two hour transfer for PRESTO.
So the system is already on a two hour transfer for PRESTO.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
That's not for Presto, it's system conditional.
For the TTC: No, not at all. There are strict conditions to that two hours.
When discussion revolves around a "two hour transfer" it means to get back on the same vehicle, go up down, back to front on any route until such time as the two hours is up, and the journey on the vehicle at that time ends.
When talking about a single route with a "two hour transfer" it means only on that route, on/off/back/forward as many times as you like, and with the remaining time left, if any, you can continue on any other route you could normally transfer to.
Valid at transfer points on day of issue for a one-way continuous trip - or as otherwise noted on the transfer.
https://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/PRESTO/PRESTO_Streetcar.jsp
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
They didn't have that "two hour" words for transferring before, just the "one-way continuous trip" words.
Megaton327
Senior Member
Regardless of wording it's always been two hours. The rule is more or less that you have a two hour transfer but you get charged a new fare if you tap on the same route twice in a row. And a few subway stations have been programmed not to allow free transfers even where it is valid, e.g. the 6 had issues at Union for a while.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Actually they did, up until a year or so ago. And then the TTC would refuse to be cornered on the wording. I scoured their rules and tariffs to find it, it had been redacted.
They moved to "reasonable time"...which is open to interpretation. When pressed on what it means, they deferred. They have one way out that is definitive: A Two Hour Transfer, and it's coming....very late, since many systems have been doing it for *generations* to good effect.
nfitz
Superstar
If it's a valid transfer. I have hundreds of taps to show that, for example, two consecutive 506 trips in the same or opposite direction don't give you a free transfer. But tapping in pretty much any subway station 1 hours an 59 minutes later - including Main Street- is good.
Why would I ever tap into Main Street, unless the streetcar broke down outside it?
amnesiajune
Senior Member
This is wrong. Credit card exchange rates are pretty much the same as what you'd pay for cash at the bank. It's actually a lot better if your bank doesn't offer the local currency of where you're travelling, since you'd get hit with multiple exchange fees. Nearly every credit card here in Canada charges the market exchange rate (i.e. what you'd see on a website like XE) plus 2.5%.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
Two hours is how Presto is set up. The TTC's official rule is still "one way continuous trip". If you have a paper transfer from Union Station and 90 minutes later your transfer is checked on the 506 at Jarvis, it's not a valid transfer because you've obviously made some stopover along the way (unless there'a an insane delay somewhere). But that's a system that relies on human judgement, and an automated system like Presto doesn't have any human judgement.
nfitz
Superstar
"If you have a PRESTO card you no longer need a paper transfer."
Not entirely true. You still need to get one for TTC times two with Metrolinx. The website is very clear: "PRESTO card customers require a paper transfer on these routes to prevent a second fare from being deducted from their card". Hmm, they seem to have updated it finally - adding routes like 121 Fort York-Esplanade at Union. Though they seem to have missed stops at Pearson.
Not entirely true. You still need to get one for TTC times two with Metrolinx. The website is very clear: "PRESTO card customers require a paper transfer on these routes to prevent a second fare from being deducted from their card". Hmm, they seem to have updated it finally - adding routes like 121 Fort York-Esplanade at Union. Though they seem to have missed stops at Pearson.
Or even better. But depends on your bank and card. I've heard that some people don't use propert banks, and use trust companies, credit unions, or even some strange ATM network - and then get surprised that they have limitations and downsides.
Ironically, the information about major delays is available electronically. The tracking information on vehicles and routes is available to all. One could write a system that processed NextBus data for massive delays, and then told Presto to use a longer transfer allowances. Though I expect programming Presto to handle a longer transfer is tougher. On the other hand, it can handle a batch process to run a correction and refund overnight or something.
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amnesiajune
Senior Member
That would be ridiculously complicated, especially since Presto is supposed to be able to function offline. A simple transfer system is the logical way for the TTC to go. Two-hour transfers is obviously ideal (and thankfully that's what city council chose) but they could've also just said "maximum two transfers within two hours" - I don't think there's any trip in the city where the fastest route requires more than two surface-to-surface transfers (although I think the 36 may be an exception now that it's split in half).
nfitz
Superstar
And that's what is planned for August/September.
Complicated, but so was that absurd transfer table they never quite got working properly (giving away far too many free trips).
And that's fine. But how do you deal with situation where it does take more than 2 hours? What if someone has been stuck somewhere for an hour. You can easily lose an hour with the subway down. Or even a missing bus or two on an every 30-minute route.
GO already has a process for trains, where they give money back if it's late. You could use a similar request process, where you have to make the request, telling it what routes you took when. And then it can try and see if it matches known issues - or hand it back to a human or the few that don't.
Otherwise, it's completely manual - which it is for GO when people get charged for a transfer they shouldn't be, because of bus delays.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
Go Transit can offer these refunds because they rarely have delays within their control. The TTC has them a lot more often because of their aging signal system and the constant weekend closures.
News Release
Ontario Cuts TTC Fare for People Connecting to or from GO Transit
January 8, 2018
Province Also Opens New Downsview Park GO Station, With Seamless Connection Between GO and TTC
Ontario has cut the cost of commuting by up to $1.50 for people who use their PRESTO card to transfer between the TTC and GO Transit or the UP Express, and has officially opened its 66th GO Transit station at Downsview Park, which provides a direct connection to the new TTC Line 1 subway extension to York Region.
Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation, visited Downsview Park Station today to announce that the new discounted TTC fare is now in effect, and to officially open the GO Transit platforms.
People who use their PRESTO card to transfer between the TTC and GO Transit or the UP Express will now save up to $1.50 on the cost of their fare. Regular commuters who use PRESTO to transfer between GO Transit and the TTC will save about $720 per year.
The new Downsview Park station provides commuters with a direct transfer between all-day train service on the Barrie GO line and the new TTC Line 1 subway extension, and is the first station to provide both GO and TTC service in the same facility. Last month, Ontario celebrated the largest expansion of Toronto's subway system in nearly 40 years, with the opening of the new TTC Line 1 extension into York region.
Making public transit more affordable is part of Ontario's plan to create fairness and opportunity during this period of rapid economic change. The plan includes a higher minimum wage and better working conditions, free tuition for hundreds of thousands of students, easier access to affordable child care, and free prescription drugs for everyone under 25 through the biggest expansion of medicare in a generation.
Ontario Cuts TTC Fare for People Connecting to or from GO Transit
January 8, 2018
Province Also Opens New Downsview Park GO Station, With Seamless Connection Between GO and TTC
Ontario has cut the cost of commuting by up to $1.50 for people who use their PRESTO card to transfer between the TTC and GO Transit or the UP Express, and has officially opened its 66th GO Transit station at Downsview Park, which provides a direct connection to the new TTC Line 1 subway extension to York Region.
Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation, visited Downsview Park Station today to announce that the new discounted TTC fare is now in effect, and to officially open the GO Transit platforms.
People who use their PRESTO card to transfer between the TTC and GO Transit or the UP Express will now save up to $1.50 on the cost of their fare. Regular commuters who use PRESTO to transfer between GO Transit and the TTC will save about $720 per year.
The new Downsview Park station provides commuters with a direct transfer between all-day train service on the Barrie GO line and the new TTC Line 1 subway extension, and is the first station to provide both GO and TTC service in the same facility. Last month, Ontario celebrated the largest expansion of Toronto's subway system in nearly 40 years, with the opening of the new TTC Line 1 extension into York region.
Making public transit more affordable is part of Ontario's plan to create fairness and opportunity during this period of rapid economic change. The plan includes a higher minimum wage and better working conditions, free tuition for hundreds of thousands of students, easier access to affordable child care, and free prescription drugs for everyone under 25 through the biggest expansion of medicare in a generation.
nfitz
Superstar
I'm not suggesting that the TTC offer refunds for the same reasons as GO.
I'm simply suggesting that they could use the same process that GO uses for refunds they ALREADY do—for being charged for extra transfers that shouldn't have cost anything. One example would be because you exceed 2 hours because of TTC delays (which I expect some saw today with the power failure during rush hour).
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
They don’t specify students and seniors get less of a discount for their already discounted fare.