Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Andy T]

I think something may have happened to the presto network as all of the reload machines were down in all stations today.

Every gate was shut off at all the stations except for the ones in the extension. This meant that they were the only ones online while the ones in the rest of the system was off. The group station managers and station managers could’ve just kept the gates in entry mode instead of shutting them off.

 

[nfitz]

The speed issue everyone complains about, is how long it might take when you load money online, before it will be on your card.

Which card does this faster?

I thought something like PASMO avoided that, by simply not letting you load online. Hmm, and rereading the information, I still don't see that you can do that with PASMO - and the Auto Reload function is similar, but looks very painful to set up, getting into credit approval!

 

[PinkLucy]

I use auto reload and it's fast, sometimes faster than my Starbucks auto reload

 

[Leo_Chan]

Any chance Presto might ever get an update to improve speed? Was in Japan again over the Holidays and you just can't get used to Presto again after using their virutally instantanious ic cards.

Loading speed, tapping speed, fare gate speed, or all of the above?

 

[nfitz]

I use auto reload and it's fast, sometimes faster than my Starbucks auto reload

Oh, that aspect works very well. Other than a delay once in hitting my credit card (no complaints there - the money got to my PrestoCard long before it came out of my Visa!), it's worked flawlessly.

Loading speed, tapping speed, fare gate speed, or all of the above?

I suppose a Japanese system that doesn't let you load online is going to potentially have a small tapping speed advantage, as every time someone taps, you don't have to go through an extremely long table of all the outstanding loads that are due. Montreal also avoided this, by only letting you load online if you have a physical device on your computer that can write directly to your smartcard (which while fast - you should see the costs on that program - compared to the very low usage).

 

[nfitz]

Fare gate and tap combined I suppose. Though the Japanese systems use a much better and faster fare gate design as well.

And have a much more limited ability to add cash to the card. Which is true of London as well.

Despite a possible sacrifice of tap speed for more flexibility loading money - what I keep hearing about in complaints is how inflexible it is loading money online, and never about tap speed.

Are we getting longer line-ups somwhere? I haven't really seen any.

And I keep asking those who complain about having to wait before tapping to receive an online load. Who does it better?

 

[steveintoronto]

And have a much more limited ability to add cash to the card. Which is true of London as well.

lol...which card?

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless?cid=contactless

 

[nfitz]

lol...which card?

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless?cid=contactless

Oyster is much more restrictive in terms of online loading.

One could use a bank card, like Presto will also support when fully installed in Toronto. If one has a bank account - which isn't so easy to get in the UK. And if there's no money in your account, transfers in aren't exactly instantaneous. I moved some money around recently early on a Friday evening, and it didn't process until the Wednesday morning - 5 days later! That's much slow than transferring money to Presto.

A credit card works better - if you have credit. But not much use if you don't qualify for one.

 

[steveintoronto]

like Presto will also support when fully installed in Toronto.

Future tense.

If one has a bank account - which isn't so easy to get in the UK

lol...I'm sorry? Not only are they bog simple, they're *too simple* to get. Mind you, UK banks, at least at the highstreet level, are often bumbling compared to their corporate operations and Cdn mainstreet banks.

A credit card works better - if you have credit. But not much use if you don't qualify for one.

Credit cards are far easier to get in the UK, even after the regulators tightening up. They used to have tables set-up in the railway stations in London during my last long work sojourn there *giving them away*. Questions were asked later.

Canada is the conservative banking nation amongst most. And in a relative sense, has served this nation well. But speaking of "bumbling"...we have Presto. Now if only Presto were overseen by the
Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada we might have a better run operation...if the OSFI allowed them to continue functioning, that is.

 

[nfitz]

Future tense.

Uh, yeah ... Presto hasn't been fully installed yet. You've noticed all the construction I assume. And lack of paper tickets, etc.

lol...I'm sorry? Not only are they bog simple, they're *too simple* to get. Mind you, UK banks, at least at the highstreet level, are often bumbling compared to their corporate operations and Cdn mainstreet banks.

Too simple to get in the UK? Try doing it as a refugee, or an illegal immigrant. Or even a medium-term visitor who doesn't need a visa. Why do you think the papers are always full of reports of people not being able to get bank accounts? Even UK citizens living abroad who are frequently in the UK have difficulty opening an account.

Canada is the conservative banking nation amongst most.

Canada? In terms of mortgages perhaps - but not in terms of shear unnecessary paperwork and big-brother bureaucracy. Try banking in Indonesia, and dealing with issues like most of your staff not having bank accounts. Payday feels like an armoured car run.

 

[steveintoronto]

Uh, yeah ... Presto hasn't been fully installed yet. You've noticed all the construction I assume. And lack of paper tickets, etc.

It's not the hardware. It's the software. Even Metrolinx realize the limitations of the present iteration.

Too simple to get in the UK? Try doing it as a refugee, or an illegal immigrant.

lol...

Or even a medium-term visitor who doesn't need a visa.

Which is standard for any advanced nation. For TfL, you can use an internationally recognized credit card.

Why do you think the papers are always full of reports of people not being able to get bank accounts?

Well, since I subscribe to two UK broadsheets and The Economist, perhaps you could enlighten me? I read far more about refugees and recent immigrants not being able to open Cdn accounts to the point that at least one bank here now offers one especially for them. What stipulations apply I leave to you to detail.

Even UK citizens living abroad who are frequently in the UK have difficulty opening an account.

Really? I still keep getting emails from two of them asking me to re-open my account. And some banks asking me to open one where I've never even had an account!

Canada? In terms of mortgages perhaps - but not in terms of shear unnecessary paperwork and big-brother bureaucracy. Try banking in Indonesia, and dealing with issues like most of your staff not having bank accounts. Payday feels like an armoured car run.

Ummm...this reaches the level of absurd parody.

Have you no sense of how Canada's banks were perceived by the US, UK and others during the last meltdown? Any guesses why Carney is now Gov of the BoE and Chair of the G20's FSB? Whatever...

Financial Times:
Canada’s top banks beat a conservative path

The performance of Canada’s five biggest banks over the first quarter has underlined the contrast between them and many of their US and European rivals. Royal Bank of Canada, Toronto-Dominion, Bank of Nova Scotia, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce and Bank of Montreal have all in the past week posted first-quarter profits and maintained their dividends. [...]

https://www.ft.com/content/433568fe-0824-11de-8a33-0000779fd2ac

But to get back to TfL and the advantages they have for card use:

Most UK banks now issue their debit, credit, charge or pre-paid cards as contactless cards. This means you can use them for purchases under £30 with no need for a PIN or signature - just touch your card on a contactless card reader.
[...]
Non-UK contactless cards
Most contactless cards issued outside the UK can be used to buy tickets or top up an Oyster card at ticket machines at Tube, DLR, London Overground and TfL rail stations, at ticket offices and Visitor Centres, even if they can't be used for contactless travel.

The list below shows which cards issued outside the UK are accepted for contactless travel.

American Express (AMEX)
All American Express contactless payment cards.

MasterCard
Nearly all MasterCard and Maestro contactless payment cards issued outside the UK are accepted.

Some cards issued in the USA, Canada and the Netherlands are not accepted. If your card is rejected on our services, please contact your card issuer.

Visa
Some Visa and V PAY contactless payment cards from countries issued outside the UK are not accepted.
[...]

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/what-are-contactless-payment-cards

How's Presto doing?

[...]
In the future, PRESTO will be delivered through additional devices (other than the familiar green card), such as contactless credit and debit cards, offering customers even more convenience, flexibility and personalization.
[...]
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/presto/presto.aspx

Good Heavens!

 

[stanko]

Not that I'm not disagreeing with you that TfL is ahead of TTC in terms of contactless payment (and pretty much all other aspects), but it is concerning to me why Canada is explicitly listed as one of the countries that Mastercards that are issued from may not work on their system and how Visas from "some countries" won't work either. That means I as a tourist in London may not have the chance to use their system by paying contactless

 

[steveintoronto]

Not that I'm not disagreeing with you that TfL is ahead of TTC in terms of contactless payment (and pretty much all other aspects), but it is concerning to me why Canada is explicitly listed as one of the countries that Mastercards that are issued from may not work on their system and how Visas from "some countries" won't work either. That means I as a tourist in London may not have the chance to use their system by paying contactless

It doesn't state MasterCard. I have a Cdn issued MasterCard. It works.

Here's what was stated:
"Nearly all MasterCard and Maestro contactless payment cards issued outside the UK are accepted.

Some cards issued in the USA, Canada and the Netherlands are not accepted."

If you remember, MasterCard had to recall some cards in Canada and be replaced with the chip model. Mine was a year and a half back, as it wasn't being recognized on some readers. There was a security issue that they didn't publicize. If your card is recognized at UK cash machines, it will be on TfL.

Beware though, as no matter where you use your MasterCard, unless you have it denominated in the local currency, they whack you for FX well above exchange.

https://creditcardgenius.ca/blog/canadian-credit-cards-no-foreign-transaction-fee/

 

[SunriseChampion]

Hahaha a. .......steveintoronto, I think nfitz understood your use of the word 'conservative' a bit differently. I also was baffled by his response to that bit. But then, I also read The Economist.

 

[stanko]

Beware though, as no matter where you use your MasterCard, unless you have it denominated in the local currency, they whack you for FX well above exchange.

https://creditcardgenius.ca/blog/canadian-credit-cards-no-foreign-transaction-fee/

I actually have one of the credit cards this blog post mentions (Fido Mastercard) and I did some travelling this summer and I did the calculations. The exchange rate that they were charging me was pretty much the exact market value plus the standard 2.5% FX fee, but since I get 4% cashback, that fee is essentially waived and I get 1.5% cashback on top of that just like with purchases in CAD. Rogers may suck for many reasons but at least this credit card is a good deal, all I'm disappointed about is the lack of support for Apple Pay