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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

I think what they ment is can they use apple pay for a one time payment say to just pay a TTC fare.
Correct. That thing with Suica looks cool but I don't expect to see that in Toronto for at least another decade. As was just stated, only today was this smart card system for our subway fully installed (and there are still busses that need to catch up...) even though London and Tokyo have already let go of this technology and moved onto the greatest thing. Pathetic
 
Correct. That thing with Suica looks cool but I don't expect to see that in Toronto for at least another decade. As was just stated, only today was this smart card system for our subway fully installed (and there are still busses that need to catch up...) even though London and Tokyo have already let go of this technology and moved onto the greatest thing. Pathetic

There is no need to change a single reader in the subway stations or on any vehicle for this. It simply involves setting up an agreement between Presto and Apple that provides Apple the ability to read Presto card data, then the only thing that happens is customers can move their Presto card's data to their phone/watch. Doesn't involve any redeployment of the tech in the city.
 
From CBC News - oh look Metrolinx/Presto/AMA is blaming the users:

Customers could be at fault
"We will completely agree they are not reliable," Anne Marie Aikins, Metrolinx senior manager of media relations, said Wednesday.

"Sometimes it's just usability, a customer who takes their card out too fast. But we're also diagnosing whether it's a software fix that needs to happen."

If software problems prove to be too serious to be patched, she said, Metrolinx is set to roll out "a next generation of self-loading machines that we expect to be much better than these current ones."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-presto-metrolinx-1.3908191

Geez, did it occur to your designers that humans don't necessarily behave the way you want them to? Perhaps what they really meant to say is the software is just fine, but as always it's the customers that need to be fixed. Their MO in general.

AoD
 
"Sometimes it's just usability, a customer who takes their card out too fast. But we're also diagnosing whether it's a software fix that needs to happen."

Interesting. Every time I've had a problem with a machine it's because it a) has a big red 'out of order' screen or something taped over the screen to that effect, or b) it looks fine but won't read my card. I'm not sure what taking my card out too early has to do with not being able to have it read my card when I insert it...

Pretty incredible deflection. About 90% or more are out of service at a given time, and they're going to suggest people are taking their cards out too early? All that does it make the load non-instantaneous, it becomes a pending load that's pushed out to all devices within 24 hours like online loads.
 
Interesting. Every time I've had a problem with a machine it's because it a) has a big red 'out of order' screen or something taped over the screen to that effect, or b) it looks fine but won't read my card. I'm not sure what taking my card out too early has to do with not being able to have it read my card when I insert it...

Pretty incredible deflection. About 90% or more are out of service at a given time, and they're going to suggest people are taking their cards out too early? All that does it make the load non-instantaneous, it becomes a pending load that's pushed out to all devices within 24 hours like online loads.

Yeah, because it's always the customer doing things too quickly. You know, we should all have geriatric expectations on how responsive their equipment should be (e.g.- automated ticket machines). I mean, the whole point of automation is, among other things, speed and reliability - they managed to hit neither.

AoD
 
As was just stated, only today was this smart card system for our subway fully installed (and there are still busses that need to catch up...) even though London and Tokyo have already let go of this technology and moved onto the greatest thing.

I don't know about Tokyo, but London isn't "letting go" of this technology. They're still expanding the Oyster card, but they're also opening up their system to payment by credit/debit cards. The TTC's implementation of Presto is also designed to support contactless credit/debit card payments in the future, which was targeted for mid-2017 according to Metrolinx. (but it seems more likely to happen sometime in 2018)
 
There is no need to change a single reader in the subway stations or on any vehicle for this. It simply involves setting up an agreement between Presto and Apple that provides Apple the ability to read Presto card data, then the only thing that happens is customers can move their Presto card's data to their phone/watch. Doesn't involve any redeployment of the tech in the city.

Depending on the method of payment on a credit card there is a different cost to Presto. A chip vs a tap vs a swipe vs online all have different costs to the retailer. And the amount of the payment also will change the fee. And apple pay is the most expensive of the lot (both the credit card company and apple both take a %). Costco and Walmart (Manitoba) even ban the use of Visa to save a bit of money (1% on the $1.1b of passenger revenue is $11M).

So not tech but $$$$. Will additional rides be generated just because we let people use Apple Pay? Not to offset the costs.

That is why they will open up the system but require cash payments for Apple Pay and any other credit card. I agree that Presto should have an app and allow NFC to be used from your phone but there is no need for Apple Pay which costs to much money.
 
Depending on the method of payment on a credit card there is a different cost to Presto. A chip vs a tap vs a swipe vs online all have different costs to the retailer. And the amount of the payment also will change the fee. And apple pay is the most expensive of the lot (both the credit card company and apple both take a %). Costco and Walmart (Manitoba) even ban the use of Visa to save a bit of money (1% on the $1.1b of passenger revenue is $11M).

So not tech but $$$$. Will additional rides be generated just because we let people use Apple Pay? Not to offset the costs.

That is why they will open up the system but require cash payments for Apple Pay and any other credit card. I agree that Presto should have an app and allow NFC to be used from your phone but there is no need for Apple Pay which costs to much money.

My post, and the one to which I replied, were about loading your Presto card onto your phone to tap your phone.

However, regarding your discussion about Apple Pay for credit/debit, Apple Pay does not cost a single penny more to retailers. Merchants have not signed any agreements or set up any special technology to accept apple pay--this is a very common misconception; in fact, Apple Pay reads no differently to a payment terminal than a credit/debit card would. You can use Apple Pay absolutely anywhere that you would be able to tap the physical card that you've loaded onto it.

Where Apple Pay costs more is in that, since its percentage charged to retailers is the same due to not having any agreement set up with them for a separate percentage, they take some of the credit card company's percentage for themselves. This is why it was so late coming to Canada--our banks didn't want to give so much of their profits to Apple, but eventually they caved.

So, there's no discussion to be had for implementing Apple Pay credit/debit on the TTC because there's no such thing as implementing Apple Pay credit/debit. You can, in fact, use Apple Pay credit/debit right now 1) on the LFLRV SRVMs to purchase cash fares, 2) on the Presto self-serve reload machines, and 3) at collector booths for purchases over $10 (though those are frequently broken for accepting tap, period). Presto even currently tells people on twitter who ask about Apple Pay that they can use it on the kiosks.

And, similarly, once the TTC accepts tap debit/credit for fare payment on Presto readers on vehicles and in stations, there will be $0.00 total extra cost and absolutely zero added effort for processing Apple Pay payments--I don't think that "costs too much money".
 
Depending on the method of payment on a credit card there is a different cost to Presto. A chip vs a tap vs a swipe vs online all have different costs to the retailer. And the amount of the payment also will change the fee. And apple pay is the most expensive of the lot (both the credit card company and apple both take a %). Costco and Walmart (Manitoba) even ban the use of Visa to save a bit of money (1% on the $1.1b of passenger revenue is $11M).

So not tech but $$$$. Will additional rides be generated just because we let people use Apple Pay? Not to offset the costs.

That is why they will open up the system but require cash payments for Apple Pay and any other credit card. I agree that Presto should have an app and allow NFC to be used from your phone but there is no need for Apple Pay which costs to much money.
Apple Pay isn't an extra cost to the merchant but to the bank (but who knows, the banks probably will start to charge merchants more for the 0.05 of a cent Apple is asking for). And as for Costco and Walmart, they only accept Mastercard because Mastercard paid them to exclusively accept those credit cards. In most places both Mastercard and Visa will be accepted since they offer the same rates to merchants
 
Yay we installed presto...sorry not in service.


Presto fare-card system now available across TTC

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/12/23/presto-fare-card-system-now-available-across-ttc.html

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Apple Pay isn't an extra cost to the merchant but to the bank (but who knows, the banks probably will start to charge merchants more for the 0.05 of a cent Apple is asking for). And as for Costco and Walmart, they only accept Mastercard because Mastercard paid them to exclusively accept those credit cards. In most places both Mastercard and Visa will be accepted since they offer the same rates to merchants

In his case, he was responding to a post where the person was suggesting that you be able to load your Presto card onto your IPhone. In this case, Presto would become 'the bank', likely paying a fee for accessing Apple Pay.

Using a bank card via Apple Pay already works with Presto (On readers that take debit/credit), and doesn't cost Presto anything extra, but also doesn't offer riders any of the benefits that using Presto via their phone would offer such as tax filing and trip logs.

And Walmart only takes MasterCard because VISA wouldn't lower their fees, not because MasterCard paid them for exclusivity.
 
In his case, he was responding to a post where the person was suggesting that you be able to load your Presto card onto your IPhone. In this case, Presto would become 'the bank', likely paying a fee for accessing Apple Pay.

Using a bank card via Apple Pay already works with Presto (On readers that take debit/credit), and doesn't cost Presto anything extra, but also doesn't offer riders any of the benefits that using Presto via their phone would offer such as tax filing and trip logs.

And Walmart only takes MasterCard because VISA wouldn't lower their fees, not because MasterCard paid them for exclusivity.
Fair enough, I should've read the post better. Now that I think about it negotiating with Apple would just be another cost in the already money-draining launch of PRESTO, that it probably wouldn't be worth it

And I'm aware of the whole story but what Walmart was asking for was outrageous and Mastercard being the one giving Walmart what they want very much equates to them paying for exclusivity. Walmart is greedy like no other and we should all do our best to never set foot in one
 

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