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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

BMO said:
Every day I use Presto at Finch and have to pay a token or cash to go home. So annoying, but still cheaper than if I had to buy a metropass since I never use the system outside of commuting. I don't get why the subway stations don't all have them at least. Each station has access to infrastructure that would be required for presto machines to work. #Frustrating
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I share your sentiment of frustration, last night I got off work early armed with a presto card and a $20 at the oriole GO station;
thought that since the train wont be coming for another 40 minutes it would be faster to take the subway from Leslie and viva to RHC... surprise! no presto reader and no ticket booth, just a token vending machine...I dont take TTC enough to buy a metropass nor do I have the desire to carry all those tokens that I probably wont use again...TTC's stubbornness to adapt quickly is really alienating many potential riders and just wasting more money than if they had quickly implemented with the rest of the GTA
 
cplchanb said:
I share your sentiment of frustration, last night I got off work early armed with a presto card and a $20 at the oriole GO station;
thought that since the train wont be coming for another 40 minutes it would be faster to take the subway from Leslie and viva to RHC... surprise! no presto reader and no ticket booth, just a token vending machine...I dont take TTC enough to buy a metropass nor do I have the desire to carry all those tokens that I probably wont use again...TTC's stubbornness to adapt quickly is really alienating many potential riders and just wasting more money than if they had quickly implemented with the rest of the GTA
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Leslie has a ticket booth. It's at the main entrance on Sheppard Avenue. You were at a secondary entrance at the bus terminal. If you walk out the front door of the bus terminal entrance, down the north sidewalk along the ramp from Old Leslie to Sheppard East, you just walk around the corner, and the main entrance is right there.

Why blame TTC? They contracted to Metrolinx to install Presto. And Metrolinx has failed to install Presto on the timeframe that was expected of them. TTC is complaining as well about the delays.
 
Meanwhile in England:

http://londonist.com/2014/04/6-july-is-the-date-london-buses-will-go-cash-free.php

Thanks Miller, Giambrone, and Moscoe. With all your ramblings about how Toronto is a "world class city," maybe you should have done something to make sure it remained one. While some systems are going all card, here you cannot even buy tokens from a fare booth with one!

And yes, I'm putting the blame squarely at these three. They were the ones who wanted to play games with the province rather than go with Presto.
 
Electrify said:
Meanwhile in England:

http://londonist.com/2014/04/6-july-is-the-date-london-buses-will-go-cash-free.php

Thanks Miller, Giambrone, and Moscoe. With all your ramblings about how Toronto is a "world class city," maybe you should have done something to make sure it remained one. While some systems are going all card, here you cannot even buy tokens from a fare booth with one!

And yes, I'm putting the blame squarely at these three. They were the ones who wanted to play games with the province rather than go with Presto.
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We would've saved a bundle going with open payments vs with Presto considering the provider would've paid for all of the equipment while Metrolinx is billing the city 50 million or so.

If anything the rollout may have been quicker with the open payments system –*after all the current holdup has been caused by Metrolinx and it's lack of experience. While it's not often that I'd advocate having a private partner install and manage a large system like this, I don't think it's a stretch to say that some of the bidders (like Mastercard I believe?) may know a thing or two about payments while Metrolinx is learning as they go.
 
Electrify said:
Meanwhile in England:

http://londonist.com/2014/04/6-july-is-the-date-london-buses-will-go-cash-free.php

Thanks Miller, Giambrone, and Moscoe. With all your ramblings about how Toronto is a "world class city," maybe you should have done something to make sure it remained one. While some systems are going all card, here you cannot even buy tokens from a fare booth with one!

And yes, I'm putting the blame squarely at these three. They were the ones who wanted to play games with the province rather than go with Presto.
Click to expand...

You know that London is going cashless because in 2012 they began rolling out the exact kind of system that the TTC wanted (open payment based which accepts debit/credit cards for fare payment, among other things) which they've forced Presto to implement.

If nothing else, you should be thanking Giambrone (commissioner at the time) for requiring the 2013 Oyster feature set rather than the 2003 Oyster feature set. Yes, Presto was trying to sell Toronto and Ottawa a system that was already an antique. Good on them for not spending hundreds of millions to replace one antique (tokens) with another antique (Presto V1).

If Metrolinx was on the ball themselves, GO Trains would have been taking debit/credit cards directly in 2008 and we could have eliminated a large number of ticket agent positions.
 
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GO agents are perfectly fine, GO needs prepurchased tickets anyway as you cant "tap off" with a debit card.

Ticket agents help put a human face to the transit agency anyway, something i wouldnt want to lose.
 
innsertnamehere said:
GO agents are perfectly fine, GO needs prepurchased tickets anyway as you cant "tap off" with a debit card.
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Really? How exactly do you think this works in London with their multi-zone tube system and requirement to tap-out to open a faregate or transfer in many locations?

The decision to charge or not charge and the identified card does not change based on which card it is. That pricing mechanism remains pretty constant; even if the price varies, the mechanism is the same.

Also, don't forget that both debit and credit cards allow holds. They can begin the transaction (take a hold) on the first tap and finish the transaction (charge the card the exact trip price) after the trip completes (end of day or at the end of a travel window).


Ticket agents help put a human face to the transit agency anyway, something i wouldnt want to lose.
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Yeah, some agents are necessary to assist the customer and handle special cases. That massive line of customers watching the clock at Union station while trying to get their 1-way ticket isn't necessary after special events at the ACC.

Presto doesn't work well for the casual/infrequent rider but it didn't need to be that way. That was an business decision by Metrolinx rather than a technical limitation. Canadianb banks were well past trials and issued millions of cards/devices by 2008 which was prior to stage-one of the Presto rollout (2009). Presto V2 could have been made available on Metrolinx's original timeline and most likely with a reduced cost.

It's all done now but I'm very glad TTC and Ottawa forced an upgrade.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
GO agents are perfectly fine, GO needs prepurchased tickets anyway as you cant "tap off" with a debit card.

Ticket agents help put a human face to the transit agency anyway, something i wouldnt want to lose.
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I dunno... the Confederation Line in Ottawa won't have ticket agents, ticket sales will be machine-only. There will be webcam stations at entrances that people can use to talk to customer help agents, if necessary, but there won't be any ticket agents physically present in the stations.
 
1overcosc said:
I dunno... the Confederation Line in Ottawa won't have ticket agents, ticket sales will be machine-only. There will be webcam stations at entrances that people can use to talk to customer help agents, if necessary, but there won't be any ticket agents physically present in the stations.
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Ticket Machines? Well, that's a large improvement from the 4 (four) Presto Card Sales Centres to load up your Presto Card with cash.
 
Electrify said:
Meanwhile in England:

http://londonist.com/2014/04/6-july-is-the-date-london-buses-will-go-cash-free.php

Thanks Miller, Giambrone, and Moscoe. With all your ramblings about how Toronto is a "world class city," maybe you should have done something to make sure it remained one. While some systems are going all card, here you cannot even buy tokens from a fare booth with one!

And yes, I'm putting the blame squarely at these three. They were the ones who wanted to play games with the province rather than go with Presto.
Click to expand...
What on earth are you talking about? If they'd have had their way, and the province hadn't have intervened, the TTC system would be in place by now, without years of provincial bureaucracy slowing things down.

You completely ignore the biggest issue, and that's the cost involved. TTC was looking for a way to install the system cheaply, within their $70 million or so budget. Metrolinx's initial offer to let TTC use Presto was going to cost $hundreds of millions. It's only after showing that it could be done a lot cheaper, and tendering it themselves, that TTC managed to get Metrolinx to come in with a proposal that would meet the $70 million city budget.

What's your agenda here, to divert blame to those who have saved the TTC and Toronto taxpayers a lot of money on this?
 
nfitz said:
What on earth are you talking about? If they'd have had their way, and the province hadn't have intervened, the TTC system would be in place by now, without years of provincial bureaucracy slowing things down.

You completely ignore the biggest issue, and that's the cost involved. TTC was looking for a way to install the system cheaply, within their $70 million or so budget. Metrolinx's initial offer to let TTC use Presto was going to cost $hundreds of millions. It's only after showing that it could be done a lot cheaper, and tendering it themselves, that TTC managed to get Metrolinx to come in with a proposal that would meet the $70 million city budget.

What's your agenda here, to divert blame to those who have saved the TTC and Toronto taxpayers a lot of money on this?
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I think Toronto finally agreed to Presto when Metrolinx agreed to the ECLRT connected to the SRT. Not sure if that went through Council, or was just a Ford agreement.
 
BurlOak said:
I think Toronto finally agreed to Presto when Metrolinx agreed to the ECLRT connected to the SRT. Not sure if that went through Council, or was just a Ford agreement.
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What on earth???

Toronto finally agreed to Presto when the Province finally agreed to pay for it.
 
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