Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Still Waters]

The TTC's current fare system is actually quite simple, with the exception of some of the transfer policies, which are not clear and consistently applied across the system. People who are advocating for changes to the fares are usually doing so to save themselves money, not because it would be fair to everyone else. The fare-by-distance thing is often mentioned as somehow being fair. What is fair for all taxpayers within the City of Toronto to be paying different fares based on some arbitrary line on a map that someone draws? The last thing we should be doing is making transit less attractive (more costly) to longer-distance riders who are already pre-disposed to using their cars to get around. For people who live downtown and want to use transit more often for shorter trips, that can be enouraged by changing the threshold for discounted trips, whether weekly or monthly. But we should not be penalizing people for where they choose to live in the city. That may satisfy some short-sighted desire to "stick it to the suburbs" but it really doesn't help the city as a whole if it results in lower overall transit usage. Like it or not, we are all one city. I can get behind a time-based fare system, say 2-2.5hrs per ride, before I can get behind a distance-based fare within Toronto. And let's also remember that any fare policy that results in reduced revenues to the TTC means higher fares for everyone, higher subsidies, or less service. So while you may not like the "inflexibility" of the TTC with regard to discounting fares, there is still a bottom line that has to be considered, one way or the other. The Presto technology offers more fare options, but the only way it will result in lower fares for one person is if someone else pays more for their ride.

 

[Jonny5]

I will be commuting to work in Toronto everyday via GO Train/TTC for the next few months, and I was just wondering if Presto card would be more beneficial than monthly passes. Also, I might take the GO Bus to go back to Waterloo on occasions as well.
The fare calculation on the GOTransit site is a bit confusing. Does anyone know which is better? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

As far as I know, PRESTO will never charge you more in a month than the cost of a monthly pass. This is especially important in February where there are always fewer business days that other months.

 

[RedRocket191]

I will be commuting to work in Toronto everyday via GO Train/TTC for the next few months, and I was just wondering if Presto card would be more beneficial than monthly passes. Also, I might take the GO Bus to go back to Waterloo on occasions as well.
The fare calculation on the GOTransit site is a bit confusing. Does anyone know which is better? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

PRESTO will be perfect for you, since with paper tickets you'll need to buy Waterloo trip tickets at the higher cash rate if you use paper tickets. With PRESTO, you'll always pay the lower 10-ride rate for each trip regardless of where the side trip takes you.

Johnny5 is right when he says that you will never pay more than the GO monthly pass while using PRESTO, but you should know that this only applies when ALL of your trips are of identical value. The occasional trip to Waterloo will throw the discount calculation off slightly so you will cap out at a slightly higher value than if you didn't make any side trips.

 

[nfitz]

Johnny5 is right when he says that you will never pay more than the GO monthly pass while using PRESTO, but you should know that this only applies when ALL of your trips are of identical value. The occasional trip to Waterloo will throw the discount calculation off slightly so you will cap out at a slightly higher value than if you didn't make any side trips.

As far as I know, both Kitchener and Waterloo are both zone 27, so I'd think that it wouldn't make any difference in the fare capping if you took the GO Train to Kitchener, or the GO Bus to Waterloo.

 

[RedRocket191]

As far as I know, both Kitchener and Waterloo are both zone 27, so I'd think that it wouldn't make any difference in the fare capping if you took the GO Train to Kitchener, or the GO Bus to Waterloo.

PRESTO does not use the same fare zones as paper tickets. PRESTO can calculate the fare down to what I'm calling a half-zone, so you could pay less by taking a different route that is more direct. You will never pay more, but I've taken two different routes to Bovaird & Hurontario and paid two different prices before.

 

[nfitz]

PRESTO does not use the same fare zones as paper tickets. PRESTO can calculate the fare down to what I'm calling a half-zone, so you could pay less by taking a different route that is more direct. You will never pay more, but I've taken two different routes to Bovaird & Hurontario and paid two different prices before.

It might not use the same fare zones, but it is the same fare to both locations. Ergo, with a weighted average, the weights are identical, and the averages would be the same. I don't believe the case of Mississauga with multiple fare zones within the same city is comparable.

Now, we may all be overestimating Presto's ability to do basic math - something that often troubles them.

However, the simple answer is, use Presto. It shouldn't cost anything more - except perhaps a rounding error. And can cost significantly less if one misses a few days of travel (through sickness, weather, a ride from someone, etc.).

 

[Jonny5]

It might not use the same fare zones, but it is the same fare to both locations.

Many times I have found PRESTO not charging the same fare for trips to the same location. It seems to not have the fare boundaries setup in the correct places and it seems to have additional subdivisions in fare zones that the paper tickets don't have as RedRocket described.

There is a regular trip I make which is cheaper by train-bus than by train only even though I get off at the same spot.

 

[mpd618]

I hope that GRT in Kitchener-Waterloo also implements Presto, but I don't see that happening until they build their LRT and rebuild the Kitchener train station.

As a quick note, GRT / Waterloo Region are indeed planning to implement smart cards / Presto sooner than that - likely this year or next.

 

[DavidH]

PRESTO does not use the same fare zones as paper tickets. PRESTO can calculate the fare down to what I'm calling a half-zone, so you could pay less by taking a different route that is more direct. You will never pay more, but I've taken two different routes to Bovaird & Hurontario and paid two different prices before.

Exactly right, and there are some quirks in the zone boundaries. My bus stop location arriving at work in the morning on the east side of Yonge Street is in a different zone than my homebound stop on the other side of the street at the same intersection, with the result that my morning trip costs slightly 50 cents less than my homebound trip.

 

[nfitz]

Many times I have found PRESTO not charging the same fare for trips to the same location. It seems to not have the fare boundaries setup in the correct places and it seems to have additional subdivisions in fare zones that the paper tickets don't have as RedRocket described.

I don't disagree or disbelieve you. However, as far as I know fare zone 27 is so large, that it's hard to imagine that a misinterpretation or subdivision would be a factor. We're not talking 416 or 905 here.

 

[RedRocket191]

Here's what I am experiencing:

Fare zone 33 is central Brampton, from about Highway 410 to Chinguacousy Road. If you take the Georgetown bus from Union Station to Highway 10 and Bovaird Drive, you pay the normal 02-33 fare. If you take the train, then transfer to the Trinity Common Bus to get there, you will pay a 02-32 fare. The only difference is that the first route spends 9.3 km inside the zone before it reaches the stop, and the second route only spends 2.9 kilometres inside the zone.

From what I can gather, the amount of time the vehicle spends inside the fare zone seems to be the factor, although what the dividing line is seems to be a mystery.

For the purpose of OP's trip, he will never pay more than what's posted on the website. I think we all agree on that. There is a chance that he'll pay less, even within the same city, town, village or zone. He won't find out until he actually makes the trip.

 

[Dan416]

Can someone please explain the difference between Autoload and Requested Reload and the pros and cons of each? I don't find the explanation on Presto's website very helpful.

 

[RedRocket191]

Can someone please explain the difference between Autoload and Requested Reload and the pros and cons of each? I don't find the explanation on Presto's website very helpful.

Autoload refills your automatically when you reach a certain threshold. For me, this is to add $20 once my balance dips below $20.

Requested reload is basically keeping your banking information on file to speed up the top-up procedure. You can always just enter your credit card every time, but requested reload makes it faster and also supports pre-authorized debit from a bank account. My sense is that requested reload, while not exceptionally useful today, is designed to work with SMS shortcode or something like that in the future.

 

[Dan416]

Autoload refills your automatically when you reach a certain threshold. For me, this is to add $20 once my balance dips below $20.

Requested reload is basically keeping your banking information on file to speed up the top-up procedure. You can always just enter your credit card every time, but requested reload makes it faster and also supports pre-authorized debit from a bank account. My sense is that requested reload, while not exceptionally useful today, is designed to work with SMS shortcode or something like that in the future.

When I was looking on the website it says something about a minimum threshold being $20, and the minimum top-up I believe was $20.

So if you have it set to autoload, then if you go below $20, it automatically fills it to $40? So basically you'd never go below $20 and that $20 just sits there ad infinitum?

 

[Jonny5]

I don't disagree or disbelieve you. However, as far as I know fare zone 27 is so large, that it's hard to imagine that a misinterpretation or subdivision would be a factor. We're not talking 416 or 905 here.

Actually I was talking about Zone 18. PRESTO doesn't recognize you leaving the train from Zone 17 (Aldershot) and taking the bus to Zone 18 (Hamilton). No matter where you get off in Hamilton, even at Hamilton GO Station, it charges nothing. If you take the train the whole way however, it will charge you correctly.