Metrolinx: Other Items (catch all)

[TheTigerMaster]

wasnt ford the man responsible for delaying and cancelling all of those lines?

The whole Ford/McGuinty shit storm happend seven years ago. The Finch and Sheppard LRTs were to have resumed construction in the mid 2010s (roughly 2015, I believe), but Metrolinx has delayed both those lines multiple times beyond those new construction start dates.

Also, we must remember that McGunity bares the brunt of the blame for canceling those LRT lines. The Mayor of Toronto did not have authority to request the cancelation; only Council did. McGuinty was complicit in Ford’s inappropriate request to circumvent council, and McGuinty is the individual that ultimately canceled those LRT lines. A responsibile leader would’ve stipulated that City Council first authorize the cancelation of those LRT lines. McGuinty chose political expediency over respecting the wishes of Council, and we continue to pay for his error in judgment today.

 

[amnesiajune]

Early 2010s the TTC was nearly finished procuring the Crosstown LRT. Metrolinx suddenly decided they wanted Infrastructure Ontario to lead the procurement instead, and insisted that they could switch to the IO model without any delays. Metrolinx was warned that what they was trying to do was impossible. A year later they announced that the Crosstown LRT was , as warned, delayed by a year because they hadn’t finished the procurement process.

Nothing would've happened with crosstown in the "early 2010s". Rob Ford overhauled the Eglinton LRT in 2011, creating the fully grade-separated LRT from Mount Dennis to where McCowan station currently is. Then in 2013 city council voted to cancel that project, revert to the pre-2011 Crosstown LRT and a separate LRT in Scarborough (which eventually became the subway).

They’ve also delayed the Finch West LRT at least three separate times.

It's still scheduled to open in 2021.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It's still scheduled to open in 2021.

No. Metrolinx announced a few weeks ago that it won’t be opening until 2022. It was supposed to open in 2018 (yes, next year), after Council rescinded Ford’s inappriate request to cancel the project, but Metrolinx’s and the provincial government’s constant inability to get any of these LRT lines started remotely on time has pushed that back by four years.

If they keep this up, Finch LRT won’t even start construction before the original planned operational date. They’ve collectively delayed these three lines by at least 12 years now. This performance is pathetic, and nobody wants to hold the government accountable for it.

(And, no, I’m not counting preliminary works as LRT construction)

 

[Palma]

They were removed because Metrolinx wasn't getting anything done at the time. The provincial government felt that the municipal politicians were purposely delaying projects like Presto and the extension of Go Train service to Kitchener, Barrie and Lincolnville.

and how have these members speeded things up?

 

[Palma]

Nothing would've happened with crosstown in the "early 2010s". Rob Ford overhauled the Eglinton LRT in 2011, creating the fully grade-separated LRT from Mount Dennis to where McCowan station currently is. Then in 2013 city council voted to cancel that project, revert to the pre-2011 Crosstown LRT and a separate LRT in Scarborough (which eventually became the subway).



It's still scheduled to open in 2021.

orginially scheduled to open in 2017 or 2015

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I really struggle to name any public transit infrastructure that has been delayed as much as the Transit City LRTs have been. I’m sure we all think the TYSSE was bad, and even that pales in comparison to the 12+ years of delays we’ve been seeing on these supposedly funded and approved LRTs. Why people want to act as if this hasn’t been happening is beyond me.

 

[cplchanb]

I really struggle to name any public transit infrastructure that has been delayed as much as the Transit City LRTs have been. I’m sure we all think the TYSSE was bad, and even that pales in comparison to the 12+ years of delays we’ve been seeing on these supposedly funded and approved LRTs. Why people want to act as if this hasn’t been happening is beyond me.

well imo the core problem is just the societal culture. with so much self interests at stake and no common progressive goal its not surprising when these lines were being planned there were going to be court and political challenges and these were very evident on the lines being built today. more money and time is being spent on just try to appease every minute dissenter when the main focus should be the majority. We wouldve been able to finish many lines if Ford hadnt gone to the subways subways subways rampage and this whole Scarborough debacle is being spurred on by dissenters from both ends when it couldve been finished by now as an LRT. Even now the reason why its still not close to being ready for construction is that there continues to be further change and uncertainties on the latest plan. shame really....this city will guarantee fall to second world status in 20 years if this culture continues.

 

[amnesiajune]

I really struggle to name any public transit infrastructure that has been delayed as much as the Transit City LRTs have been. I’m sure we all think the TYSSE was bad, and even that pales in comparison to the 12+ years of delays we’ve been seeing on these supposedly funded and approved LRTs.

"Funded and approved" is completely false. Only three of the LRT lines in Transit City were ever funded, and none of them got to the end of the approval process. The only thing that was fully approved by the time Rob Ford entered office was grade separation for the rail crossing by Agincourt GO Station, which wasn't just a Transit City project - it was also a prerequisite for double-tracking the Stouffville Line, a project that predates Metrolinx and Transit City by two years.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

"Funded and approved" is completely false. Only three of the LRT lines in Transit City were ever funded, and none of them got to the end of the approval process. The only thing that was fully approved by the time Rob Ford entered office was grade separation for the rail crossing by Agincourt GO Station, which wasn't just a Transit City project - it was also a prerequisite for double-tracking the Stouffville Line, a project that predates Metrolinx and Transit City by two years.

Let me be clear. I'm talking about everything that happened post Rob Ford. The Transit City LRTs, Eglinton, Finch and Sheppard, have been delayed by twelve years, post Rob Ford. Not pre Rob Ford; post Rob Ford. Toronto City Council hasn't taken any significant action on these three LRT projects since Ford's inappropriate attempted cancelation was rescinded back in 2012/2013.

And yes, post Rob Ford, these three LRT lines have supposedly been fully funded and approved. And despite them supposedly being funded and approved, the provincial government has collectively delayed their implementation by at least 12 years, beyond whatever delayed were triggered by Ford and McGuinty's inappropriate 2010 cancelation of the LRT lines.

 

[APTA-2048]

Let me be clear. I'm talking about everything that happened post Rob Ford. The Transit City LRTs, Eglinton, Finch and Sheppard, have been delayed by twelve years, post Rob Ford. Not pre Rob Ford; post Rob Ford. Toronto City Council hasn't taken any significant action on these three LRT projects since Ford's inappropriate attempted cancelation was rescinded back in 2012/2013.

And yes, post Rob Ford, these three LRT lines have supposedly been fully funded and approved. And despite them supposedly being funded and approved, the provincial government has collectively delayed their implementation by at least 12 years, beyond whatever delayed were triggered by Ford and McGuinty's inappropriate 2010 cancelation of the LRT lines.

Where do you get 12 years from?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Eglinton Crosstown: 1 year (Originally planned operational date: 2020; new planned operational date: 2021)
Sheppard East LRT: 5 years (Originally planned construction start date: 2017; new planned construction start date: some point after 2022)
Finch West LRT: 4 years (Originally planned operational date: 2018; new planned operational date: 2022)

Looks like I made an error. The three LRT lines have been collectively delayed by at least ten years, not twelve. I must've gotten one of the dates mixed up earlier. Nevertheless an absolutely terrible record.

Note that the Sheppard LRT does not have a planned operational date, so I'm using the planned striation street dates.

 

[amnesiajune]

With Sheppard, you can make the case that it's being delayed for political reasons, but that's definitely not true of Finch West and Eglinton. Sometimes projects just get delayed because funding them isn't a top priority (which is what happened on Finch), or because the design process takes longer than anticipated (true for both of them).

 

[jje1000]

I really struggle to name any public transit infrastructure that has been delayed as much as the Transit City LRTs have been. I’m sure we all think the TYSSE was bad, and even that pales in comparison to the 12+ years of delays we’ve been seeing on these supposedly funded and approved LRTs. Why people want to act as if this hasn’t been happening is beyond me.

I think it's because once Miller was out, there wasn't really anyone pushing them.

Political willpower can really make the difference between a project being at the front of the line or a project stuck in purgatory.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

With Sheppard, you can make the case that it's being delayed for political reasons, but that's definitely not true of Finch West and Eglinton. Sometimes projects just get delayed because funding them isn't a top priority (which is what happened on Finch), or because the design process takes longer than anticipated (true for both of them).

I don't really care why the project were delayed, unless its due to factors completely out of the hands of the government. The fact of the matter is that this government has spent two election cycles campaigning on these LRT lines, and thus far they've failed to deliver any of them remotely on time, due to delays of their own volition. They need to be held accountable for their failures.

 

[drum118]

Various projects were delay before 2010 due to the fact the province ran out of money and defer them to a later day. With Miller not running in 2010 open the door to kill various lines since he was the backer of these lines.

Ford who became Mayor in 2010 hated transit especially streetcar that he help to to close the doors on various lines and help to push them to be subways, when there wasn't any business case for them in the first place. He was follow by Tory who doesn't support streetcar and knew subways would help him in the long run as well his so call not SmartTrack System to stay in office.

The pols from day one have help to put Regional Transit years behind schedule and getting nothing built even on the Quick Win Front. One reason McGuinty scrap the pols board, as he want shovels in the ground by the next election and fed up with their talk.

If Metrolinx had forced Toronto to live up to MOU like it should, Sheppard and the SRT would be built as LRT like they should by now, but no cars for them or maybe a few for one line.

Wynne ran on a transit platform in 2014 that call for the Milton Line to be 4 track by 2021, yet it completely fallen off the table.

The EA for QQE was approved in 2008, yet here we are 9 years later still waiting for it to be built to the point the Union Loop will most likely be scrap due to cost and replace as an east-west line only, since Toronto wants to do things cheap.

The current BOD is a joke and has been so since the government went this route since most don't have a real understanding of transit in the first place. It needs professional people with transit background as well business experience. One reason I haven't been to a meeting in the last year since it was only hot air.

What Metrolinx was to be as a bill in 2006 and what it is today are almost 2 different things to the point its not a Regional GTHA anymore, but more Southern Ontario System. Even then, it can't see outside the box that it has to be more than what it is to day, let alone a decade down the road.