Metrolinx/GO Georgetown Corridor Project

[Woodbridge_Heights]

It's a very sneaky form of NIMBY'ism that uses the argument for electrification to defeat any improvements proposed along the line. The piling would have to be done eventually if electrification were to begin. Why not do it now and gain the benefit.

 

[junctionist]

If the province made a commitment to start running electric trains in a number of years, the activists based out of Weston would be placated. The province will not do that; the plan is most likely to buy new diesels to increase service levels and then to use them for several decades on the line. The train traffic will increase substantially, with all day service and the frequent airport train. Technology is available to minimize the pollution and noise, so let's implement it in this soon to be busy corridor.

The province can bring on the diesel trains now for service improvements, but they should start putting up the wires in preparation to buy electric trains in the short term future.

As for the Junction residents who took issue with the pile driving, at least one homeowner has discovered structural issues. Business owners had problems as well. Their efforts to win greater respect for all communities from the province in constructing infrastructure are great.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

But many feel that residents will never be satisfied until the railway is abandonded. The slow creep of demands just keeps putting one barrier after another in front of improvements to the corridor.

 

[BMO]

I was thinking, why doesn't the province buy hybrid trains for the Georgetown corridor (trains that can use electricity but also, can use diesel) I think if the airport link was electrified, and the georgetown line was left as is, couldn't the GO trains just use the electric line until it gets near the airport, then just switch to diesel for the rest of the trip? I mean it is still quite a bit of distance to go after that point, plus the diesel will not be used in the Weston neighbourhood, plus funds from blue 22 can help pay for the electric wires, since it will be public infrastructure, a win-win.

 

[Platform 27]

I was thinking, why doesn't the province buy hybrid trains for the Georgetown corridor (trains that can use electricity but also, can use diesel) I think if the airport link was electrified, and the georgetown line was left as is, couldn't the GO trains just use the electric line until it gets near the airport, then just switch to diesel for the rest of the trip? I mean it is still quite a bit of distance to go after that point, plus the diesel will not be used in the Weston neighbourhood, plus funds from blue 22 can help pay for the electric wires, since it will be public infrastructure, a win-win.

It's been hashed over here a few times, but in brief, dual-mode locomotives are notoriously pricey, and you don't get the same enhanced-acceleration bang from your wire-stringing buck that EMUs do. Both are being considered by the current electrification study, and we'll see if it recommends acquiring dual-modes or just going straight electric.

the plan is most likely to buy new diesels to increase service levels and then to use them for several decades on the line.

GO has 20 more MP40 diesel locos under construction, which will mostly replace existing F59s, and then zero purchases planned beyond that. Indeed, at the time they exercised the option for the additional MP40s, GO was quoted in the press as saying the reason they didn't buy more than just the next lot of 20 was because MoveOntario 2020 had committed to an electrified Lakeshore corridor.

 

[Platform 27]

They don't need to back onto the York subdivision for westerly travel. The Canadian does it because it is headed east on the York sub.

My train-fu is weak... for some reason, I thought the Snider Jct. wyes ran N-to-W and N-to-E rather than N-to-W and S-to-W.

I'm surprised that they are using sheet piles at all since their T-shape interlock between the piles was meant to reduce handle that. My guess is that this is to allow excavation to begin before all the regular piles are in place due to extreme delays caused by piling rule changes (they were getting 8 piles per day before but now only get 1 or 2).

Interestingly, the WTD page has now changed to say...

WORK SCHEDULE CHANGE

GO has received notice from CN that the contractor's request to use the vibratory hammer in Zone D during the week of February 22, 2010 and March 1, 2010 has been approved. This work has been on hold and the contractor is now ready to proceed.

Also, the weekend work anticipated for February 26 to 28 has been postponed and will no longer take place at that time.

I wonder if the two changes are related?

 

[Hipster Duck]

That's the first time I've ever heard anyone reply to anything I've said with the term NIMBY, it goes to show that most throwing around that word don't take the time to grasp exactly what is being said. If you're satisfied with GO trains not being electrified that's fine, but at the end of the day I bet it's not your children breathing the air. Especially considering that GO lines can be run more effectively with electrification, there isn't even a debate.

When's the last time you've visited Junction when construction was underway? I live at St. Clair and Lansdowne and the ringing is clear as a bell to the point where at times opening the window during the summer is very annoying... If its very annoying for me I couldn't even begin to imagine how someone at Dundas and Keele might feel.

You know, just to keep you in the loop, the pile drivers have nothing to do with electrifying or not electrifying the line.

 

[rbt]

You know, just to keep you in the loop, the pile drivers have nothing to do with electrifying or not electrifying the line.

Not strictly true.

If you do not allow for electrification then the required grade separation is tighter so there would be fewer piles to drive and the depth would not be as much.

Electrification clearances (and GO being a PITA) is why Cityplace does not yet have a pedestrian bridge across the track.

 

[TOareaFan]

Not strictly true.

If you do not allow for electrification then the required grade separation is tighter so there would be fewer piles to drive and the depth would not be as much.

Electrification clearances (and GO being a PITA) is why Cityplace does not yet have a pedestrian bridge across the track.

So, if I understand you correctly, allowing for electrification has meant more pile driving....therefore more noise and "man made earthquakes"? Maybe, to be fair, the residents should have been offered the choice of no electrification ever in exchange for less aggrivation from pile driving

 

[rbt]

So, if I understand you correctly, allowing for electrification has meant more pile driving....therefore more noise and "man made earthquakes"? Maybe, to be fair, the residents should have been offered the choice of no electrification ever in exchange for less aggrivation from pile driving

Electrification requires a little bit more space under bridges and such-like because GO targets electrified bi-levels; so take the current space required and put pantograph and wire overhead on it. It might be as low as a couple of feet but the discussions around the pedestrian crossing for City Places leads me to believe it is a meter or more.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

^^ Wouldn't that also create issues with the three road crossings in WCC as well? Needing higher clearances leading to steeper approaches for the roads and property acquisition for the slopes.

This is starting to sound like a WCC/Junction beat down I know, but the points are indeed valid.

 

[RedRocket191]

^^ Wouldn't that also create issues with the three road crossings in WCC as well? Needing higher clearances leading to steeper approaches for the roads and property acquisition for the slopes.

This is starting to sound like a WCC/Junction beat down I know, but the points are indeed valid.

The design takes these height issues into account.

 

[junctionist]

But many feel that residents will never be satisfied until the railway is abandonded. The slow creep of demands just keeps putting one barrier after another in front of improvements to the corridor.

It's not necessarily a bad thing if the most reasonable criticisms they make are addressed in the best way possible and the rest rejected.

And it's easy to single out Weston residents as opponents of unmitigated service expansion, but every community along the corridor has residents that are happy that Clean Train is fighting for their interests as well.

If we electrify today, in thirty years the demands might be to bury the corridor completely. That's a good thing; it means proper investments are being made to allow for a proper transportation system while preserving and enhancing (rather than degrading) glivability in established urban neighbourhoods.

Finally, no one in the Junction would oppose electrification for slightly less pile driving. That's stupid and unrealistic because we've been building infrastructure like bridges that take into account clearances for future electrification for decades. The Junction would benefit greatly from electrification as well. The reality in the Junction is that GO brought in inferior pile driving technologies in a dense residential and business area. What residents expected was better noise mitigation, not no pile driving at all. It's come to legally stopping pile driving because GO has no intention of taking responsibility and mitigating the impact of their activities.

 

[Platform 27]

Here's a fun tender in light of the WTD story. I assume this will apply primarily to the Strachan grade sep, the Weston tunnel, plus whatever piles might need to go in to widen some of the bridges.

Call For Request to Qualify and Quote

RQQ No. 2010-TS-006 Consultant’s Assignment for Georgetown South Noise and Vibration Mitigation Strategy

Consultant’s Assignment for Georgetown South Noise and Vibration Mitigation Strategy

Metrolinx is accepting Requests to Qualify and Quote for Consultant’s Assignment for Georgetown South Noise and Vibration Mitigation Strategy

A Mandatory Site / Information Meeting will be held at 1:30 p.m. on March 29, 2010 at Metrolinx’s Head Office, 20 Bay Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario (Consultants to meet at reception and wait to be directed to a meeting room). Failure of Consultants to be present and registered from the time the meeting is called to order until the meeting is adjourned will result in exclusion from the site. Delete this paragraph if not required

Requests to Qualify and Quote documents are available weekdays from 8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. from Metrolinx’s Procurement and Contract Services Office at the address below. Tender documents are provided only in hard copy format. No electronic versions are available. Tender documents must be picked up in person and shall only be issued to persons who provide all of the following: company name, address, telephone and fax numbers and contact name and who reference the above Tender number. Call (416) 869-3600, ext. 5643 or e-mail sabrina.tecca@gotransit.com for inquiries.

Sealed Requests to Qualify and Quote will be accepted until 3:00 p.m. on Tuesday April 13, 2010 at the same Procurement and Contract Services Office.

Metrolinx reserves the right to reject any or all Requests to Qualify and Quote at its sole discretion.

Only Consultants who possess the following experience and qualifications will be considered for award of this Contract:

· Noise and Vibration Mitigation for large construction projects and rail traffic;

· Rail Transportation projects;

· Large civil projects.

 

[unimaginative2]

I think the idea is that electrification is a great idea (and one that GO is studying) but that running diesel trains for a few years is better than running the current level of service until the wires are strung.

I would also like to say that I spent eight months living in a house that backed onto the Lakeshore West line--a significantly busier line in terms of GO train service--and did not smell even the slightest hint of diesel fumes. I think you can tough it out for a few years until the catenary goes up.

Except that it's not that simple. There was an electrification study back in the early 90s. They talked about it in the 70s, too. It's not like it's simply a waiting game. If people don't organize to push it, it ain't gonna happen.