Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

[drum118]

Recognize that boarding will always take time but the TTC cars definitely could use another set.
Also I think Amsterdam is moving away from that. They still had it on their old Siemens but the new CAF trains they don’t have collector or gates and all door boarding/alighting.

The new cars do have a collector on the ones we rode this summer and gates. You could get on/off at the collector area with no gate. Most had no gates. Its the only system I have come across with gates on the car.

I had to laugh on my last trip where the drivers/collectors on a large number of systems not only had to collect the fare, but they had the cash tray open in front of them as well passes. Shook my head the first time I saw this and said to myself, it would be a nightmare of drivers in NA to do this without been rob on a daily base. Today, its smartcard or pay by credit/debit card.

 

[AlxOptimism]

Also noticed these trains have 8 sets of doors (6 double doors and 2 single doors) for a 42m train. The Flexities are 30m long with only 4 doors (2 double, 2 single). Wish the Flexities would've had two double doors instead of the 1 since the train always waits for people to get on/off during rush hour

I'm sure that Bombardier/Alstom is capable of constructing such a model as many of their European trams are built with double-doors

Assuming they win procurement for EWE trains

Then the double-doors trams could be paired with original models to increase capacity across the board

 

[drum118]

I'm sure that Bombardier/Alstom is capable of constructing such a model as many of their European trams are built with double-doors

Assuming they win procurement for EWE trains

Then the double-doors trams could be paired with original models to increase capacity across the board

There is a different to how many doors a section has based on what you noted vs what TTC has. The more doors you add, less seats there will be on a car. Again, radius will determine the length of the section to the point a large numbers of systems have less sections and longer sections with 2 doors in them per side. Europe is more willing to give up seating areas for more doors.

Seating is more important vs doors or layout of seating both within TTC and City Council.

 

[superelevation]

Most systems have more doors per vehicle type than we do.

40' buses have mostly 3 doors while the 60's have 4, but you will see the standard 2 and 3 doors buses there also even in the same fleet.

Modern LRV's have single doors at each end like TTC, but more double doors than we do, depending on the length as well the section style. Then, a number of systems have doors on both sides.

Not all systems have TTC model as they have larger radius that allows longer sections as well less sections for the same length.

All systems have the same issues as TTC for riders getting on/off based on ridership and stops. Its something you will have to live with. Big different between TTC and the World, TTC opens the doors in place of riders pushing the button to do so for getting on/off the car.

Some systems only allow you to enter by one or 2 single door and leave by the double doors only. Amsterdam is the only system I been on where there is a fare collector in the centre area where you can pay your fare if you don't have a smart card. My last trip saw the same thing with the driver collecting fares as well compared to this trip as well having gates at various door to allow riders off only. A few of those cars still exist today and will have the gates remove shortly. This depends on the type of LRV you are getting on since the older models are not setup that way.

The Stadler car in London UK has an extra single door next to the driver who compartment is smaller than other LRV's that allows that extra door to be added.

Many LRVs / trams have a double door at the front. Not sure why you would claim as if single doors are some universal truth.

 

[drum118]

Many LRVs / trams have a double door at the front. Not sure why you would claim as if single doors are some universal truth.

Did I claim It something Universal Truth?? Not every systems I have been on have single doors, but a fair number do.

 

[superelevation]

Did I claim It something Universal Truth?? Not every systems I have been on have single doors, but a fair number do.

"Modern LRV's have single doors at each end like TTC" sounds pretty universal! You could have added "some".

 

[M II A II R II K]

Would anyone consider mixing both LRV designs in a single trainset if they're short on Bombardiers at some point.

 

[T3G]

Would anyone consider mixing both LRV designs in a single trainset if they're short on Bombardiers at some point.

No.

 

[trtcttc]

Would anyone consider mixing both LRV designs in a single trainset if they're short on Bombardiers at some point.

Do you mean Citadis and Flexities? I don't think they're compatible to be linked.

 

[Bordercollie]

Do you mean Citadis and Flexities? I don't think they're compatible to be linked.

The signalling systems are also not compatible

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The signalling systems are also not compatible

Which makes no sense at all. Yet another dumb choice by Metrolinx when they screwed up the contract with bombardier when they didn't want to make changes to it that they should have.

 

[cplchanb]

Which makes no sense at all. Yet another dumb choice by Metrolinx when they screwed up the contract with bombardier when they didn't want to make changes to it that they should have.

the chances of shipping a train across town for cross usage even if they were the same order is slim to none so it really doesn't matter anyways. It's not like line and 2 interlining. Good try on taking a cheap shot at metrolinx btw

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

the chances of shipping a train across town for cross usage even if they were the same order is slim to none so it really doesn't matter anyways. It's not like line and 2 interlining. Good try on taking a cheap shot at metrolinx btw

I'm just saying that they were originally planned to be the same vechels but because Metrolinx wanted to change designs for some reason were stuck the same ones from Ottawa, hopefully we don't have any of the problems they did with them. Also Metrolinx deserves all of the cheap shots they can get for not doing a proper contract process for them.

 

[trtcttc]

I'm just saying that they were originally planned to be the same vechels but because Metrolinx wanted to change designs for some reason were stuck the same ones from Ottawa, hopefully we don't have any of the problems they did with them. Also Metrolinx deserves all of the cheap shots they can get for not doing a proper contract process for them.

I’m guessing part of the reason is to support new manufacturing facility Alstom was building in Brampton. While the Ottawa trains were a debacle, not sure if you can blame it all on Alstom, and the TTC order of Bombardier wasn’t without its issues either. I think it made sense at the time to diversify the supply chain since there was the ION, Valley West, Eglinton Crosstown all waiting on Bombardier vehicles.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I’m guessing part of the reason is to support new manufacturing facility Alstom was building in Brampton. While the Ottawa trains were a debacle, not sure if you can blame it all on Alstom, and the TTC order of Bombardier wasn’t without its issues either. I think it made sense at the time to diversify the supply chain since there was the ION, Valley West, Eglinton Crosstown all waiting on Bombardier vehicles.

The Alstom facility was built in Brampton because of Metrolinx deciding to sole source an order from them without any other manufacturers having a chance to do so.

Ion had to wait longer because Metrolinx was still following an old delivery schedule that they refused to change when the crosstown was the only one being built and had nowhere for them to deliver trains too. Ion had ordered them through Metrolinx but had to deal with bombardier to be able to get them on time to actually open their service.

I'm not really sure why Edmonton has any affect on the decisions that Metrolinx made plus they have their own problems, seperate from the delivery of the trains.

Metrolinx made no effort to actually design or select a vehicle they went cheap and picked one that was already in use all because Bombardier wouldn't deliver trains to a non existent location.