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Mayor John Tory's Toronto

Thorns_Embrace said:
So I was driving down Richmond Street yesterday at around 2:30 pm. The temperature was okay, not overly cold an not raining or anything like that.
How many people were on the separated bike lanes praised as a success by almost everyone? There was one bike rider from Parliament to University Ave. Meanwhile there was significant delays in car traffic despite the fact that it was a weekend. The staff report claimed that there were 1,640 daily riders at Richmond and Jarvis.

But how could that be if I saw 1 rider in 15 minutes then that is 4 riders in 1 hour or 96 riders in a day. And that is ignoring that there are more riders at 2:30 pm than 2:30 am. I understand it is a weekend in February(even if the weather is above average).
But I think that those explanations cannot explain this big a discrepancy.

This bike lane passed unanimously council last month.
Councilors need to start doing their own research especially if something is too good to be true. Staff are biased either from a political perspective or just a professional one. I mean if you proposed a bike lane wouldn't you want to rig the numbers to make yourself look smart for proposing it. I will be honest if I were in that situation I would do anything in my power to get the lanes approved.
I want to know if anyone messaged the cycle lobbyists informing them of the dates that the studies were done on in order to have people with a vested interest inflating the numbers?
The worst part is not one councilor even asked any questions about the obviously rigged numbers which is just an embarrassment.

I will let everyone know how many cyclists I see today as well just for clarity. But the weather is worse so I expect the number to decrease.
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This whole rant was because of one anecdotal observation you made on a February weekend? Did you even bother to at least look into the cycling count methodology that's been well-documented in the various reports, or go to any of the public meetings and confront them directly?


The worst part is not one councilor even asked any questions about the obviously rigged numbers which is just an embarrassment.
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That's what Mammoliti used to do, and I can assure you that the "embarrassment" that took place was definitely not on the part of city staff.



Staff are biased either from a political perspective or just a professional one. I mean if you proposed a bike lane wouldn't you want to rig the numbers to make yourself look smart for proposing it. I will be honest if I were in that situation I would do anything in my power to get the lanes approved.
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A staffer who does such a thing would be risking irreparable damage to their professional reputation, their career, and their prospect for ever working for the city again. I don't think you'd actually be foolish enough to do any of this, all for a bike lane that has already proven itself without the need for manipulation, but I could be wrong.


Thorns_Embrace said:
That would make way too much sense though.
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No it wouldn't.
 
PinkLucy said:
I lived in an area that had part-time bike lanes. It's a clusterf**k, because people forget that they are there after driving in them. Full time lanes work best. And cycling is a valid and important means of transportation, not a part-time activity. Yes, more people bike in the warmer weather, but many winters are not like the current one and biking is quite possible year-round. We need a culture shift.
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That's why I suggested to separate them with planters (or something removable) - so it's clear when it's off limits for cars.
OK - let's say every car carries 1 person, as does a bike. The bike lane takes up half the space of a car lane.
When the bike traffic (average vehicles per day per lane) becomes less that half that of cars, it's time to switch to car mode.
And remember, the few bikes that exist can still use the road in this winter period, just not in a dedicated lane.
 
salsa said:
This whole rant was because of one anecdotal observation you made on a February weekend? Did you even bother to at least look into the cycling count methodology that's been well-documented in the various reports, or go to any of the public meetings and confront them directly?
Click to expand...
Well my Sunday observations were even worse. The weather was bad on Sunday but it was not on Saturday. Sure maybe I am using a small sample but i am not talking about a small decrease in staff projections but a significant change from a number that suggests hundreds of riders an hour to almost zero. And for what it is worth I thought the numbers were inflated back in the summer as well I just never went about counting the bikes until this weekend. I may revisit this in June but I also dont really want to sit at a corner filming the number of bikes passing by.

salsa said:
That's what Mammoliti used to do, and I can assure you that the "embarrassment" that took place was definitely not on the part of city staff.
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It is funny that I actually thought about the "what if Mammolitti was here" thing. Made me miss him a bit even if I thought he went about things in a bad way. Also I believe political debates should have at least one dissenter otherwise it just becomes a "look at how great we are" PR stunt. I know that the 5 minutes Mammolitti got to speak were an embarrassment but I still prefer that to our current council.




salsa said:
A staffer who does such a thing would be risking irreparable damage to their professional reputation, their career, and their prospect for ever working for the city again. I don't think you'd actually be foolish enough to do any of this, all for a bike lane that has already proven itself without the need for manipulation, but I could be wrong.
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report them
I mean pushing for bike lanes in 2019 is not exactly a controversial idea in municipal politics. But even if someone did this, who would report them? Who would be the staffer who whistleblows on a colleague? Who would they go to? The Toronto star is clearly all for the bikelanes. The councilors are all for the bikelanes. Who would they report to? The highly credible Sue Ann Levy?
Are these the same staff that underestimated the fare evasion rate by 200%? I really don't trust city staffs projections on anything


salsa said:
No it wouldn't.
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Yes it would but the problem with that option is it doesn't screw over the drivers enough. That is the only real reason why someone would be against that. I had to sit in stop and go traffic on Richmond on a Saturday while there was an empty bikelane that got unanimous approval from council. I am sure you don't care or will tell me to take a bike. But it isn't actually easy for non-athletes to bike downtown from Scarborough.
 
BurlOak said:
That's why I suggested to separate them with planters (or something removable) - so it's clear when it's off limits for cars.
OK - let's say every car carries 1 person, as does a bike. The bike lane takes up half the space of a car lane.
When the bike traffic (average vehicles per day per lane) becomes less that half that of cars, it's time to switch to car mode.
And remember, the few bikes that exist can still use the road in this winter period, just not in a dedicated lane.
Click to expand...
You ignore the reason for bike lanes in the first place: safety for cyclists. A cyclist riding in a snowy segregated lane risks injury, but likely nothing serious or involving anyone else. A cyclist riding in a snowy mixed lane risks the above, plus cars driven by unaware, ignorant or arrogant drivers who have to deal with inclement weather themselves. The fact is, we have too many cars in the downtown. We have put commuters—and incurred disproportionate spending on roads while receiving less tax income—over the people who live and work within cycling/walking/taxi/public transport distance for decades. For a healthy city, that needs to be curbed dramatically and brought into an equilibrium. Right now, it's no where close.
 
zang said:
You ignore the reason for bike lanes in the first place: safety for cyclists. A cyclist riding in a snowy segregated lane risks injury, but likely nothing serious or involving anyone else. A cyclist riding in a snowy mixed lane risks the above, plus cars driven by unaware, ignorant or arrogant drivers who have to deal with inclement weather themselves. The fact is, we have too many cars in the downtown. We have put commuters—and incurred disproportionate spending on roads while receiving less tax income—over the people who live and work within cycling/walking/taxi/public transport distance for decades. For a healthy city, that needs to be curbed dramatically and brought into an equilibrium. Right now, it's no where close.
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If every cyclist deserved a dedicated lane for every km of their trip, then the argument can be made that every bike lane should be in existence for the full 12 months - in case a cyclist may want to use it. But that's not the case even in summer. The reason bike lanes are not on every street in the city is that there needs to be enough cyclist traffic to warrant having them. I don't know exactly what that number should be, but it's larger than 1. So if a street that caries very few bikes in the summer does not warrant a bike lane, should a street in winter that caries very few bikes also not warrant a bike lane. I proposed a rational method for determining when the bike lane is needed - when that space would carry more passengers as a bike lane than as a car lane. Perhaps we could even be generous and give the bikes their own lane in winter when that space carries half as many people by bike than by car.
 
Thorns_Embrace said:
Well my Sunday observations were even worse. The weather was bad on Sunday but it was not on Saturday.
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I happened to be on my bike that day and can tell you it was terribly windy and unpleasant despite the otherwise mild temperatures. I wouldn't have bothered to do this at all if I knew it would turn out this way. Therefore I completely disagree with your "weather report".


Sure maybe I am using a small sample but i am not talking about a small decrease in staff projections but a significant change from a number that suggests hundreds of riders an hour to almost zero.
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And that's to be expected when the weather sucks like it has in the past few days. In other news, I notice a huge decrease in swimmers using outdoor pools these days.



report them
I mean pushing for bike lanes in 2019 is not exactly a controversial idea in municipal politics.
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It shouldn't be controversial, but in this city we're not there yet. Clearly you have no idea of the monumental effort it took just to get that little bike lane pilot on Bloor street, for example. Which the mayor's allies on council were prepared to kill at anytime (along with a bunch of other proposed bike lanes) if it didn't pass with flying colors through an unprecedented battery of tests as to how much it will get used year-round, it's economic impact, parking issues, opinions from drivers and business owners, and effect on traffic flow on both Bloor and parallel streets. And even then, you have the Stephen holydays of the world who were never interested in anything to do with road safely if it means losing a parking spot.



Yes it would but the problem with that option is it doesn't screw over the drivers enough. That is the only real reason why someone would be against that. I had to sit in stop and go traffic on Richmond on a Saturday while there was an empty bikelane that got unanimous approval from council...I am sure you don't care or will tell me to take a bike. But it isn't actually easy for non-athletes to bike downtown from Scarborough
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No that is not my opinion, nor was it said in any of the other responses to your post. Just because I'm a cyclist doesn't mean I wish for any bike lake that would cause undue congestion on our city streets. But if you actually cared to at least read the report that you linked with an open mind, you'd see that that's not at all what's happening here. Yes I know that resistance to change and screaming "fake news" is par-for-the-course for the right wing these days, but you're really fighting a losing battle here when even the majority of drivers who were surveyed responded favorably to the bike lane. All that stop and go traffic you speak of would exist no matter what, with or without the bike lane. There are simply too many cars, signalized intersections, road work, illegal parking and random lane closures in a densely populated area. When you took your car downtown, what else did you expect? This is not Hamilton.
 
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Tory reminded me of Lonesome George the Last Galapagos Tortoise defending his budget in the press conference. Steady as she goes? Silly Tory, there is no place in the future for you.
 
TrickyRicky said:
Tory reminded me of Lonesome George the Last Galapagos Tortoise defending his budget in the press conference. Steady as she goes? Silly Tory, there is no place in the future for you.
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I don't know the last time I found myself this disappointed with a proposed City budget.

There's a combination of factors here.

First is that the budget has a huge hole in it, it is not balanced, excepting money from other levels of government that has not been publicly or otherwise committed to.

So far as I am concerned that violates provincial law, certainly in spirit but I would would argue in writing as well.

Second is that we all know so many city services are starved of cash, wait lists for recreation programs grow ever longer, the TTC is ever more crowded and yet overall increases are below inflation and take no account of population growth, never mind
addressing pressing, pre-existing needs.

Third Tory is simply not meeting commitments he explicitly made; nor is the proposed budget inline with clearly passed council directives.

Finally, I'm hearing a lot of disingenuous pap about all of this, including the gross misuse of the word propaganda.

I would hope to see this amended at Council.......but that may be wishful thinking on my part.
 
Expect nothing good. Tory has embraced the smothering malaise that is ingrained in Toronto culture.
 
Tory just posted a picture of him with Elisabeth Moss and a Handmaid's Tale producer They have been filming around City Hall lately.
 
^And, clearly it sounds like this election is somewhat rigged or messed up, or corrupted maybe even. I wouldn't be surprised, as this is Chicago and Illinois we are taking about. I just don't like US municipal politicians....
 
It was essentially a choice between two Democrats (a Democrat 'insider' & a Democrat 'outsider'), much like what happens in California.

Now, I'm hardly a fan of the Republicans, but this doesn't seem like a healthy political system to me.
 
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