King of Kensington
Senior Member
Wasn't Tory a member of the Rosedale Golf Club? Would have been nice if he showed some integrity and said if you're going to exclude Jews you're going to have to exclude me.
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Mayor John Tory's Toronto
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
prosperegal
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure exclusionary rules have ended at Rosedale. And many females who are university-educated attended institutions that excluded them when they were first founded including myself. I also have membership in organizations that excluded me due to my (Chinese) ethnicity. For some reason, Chinese people have less issue with joining organizations that formerly excluded them than other groups. Don't know why that is, though.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure Tory was a member before 1997.
prosperegal
Senior Member
Does it really matter though? I have a friend whose sister was part of the first co-ed class of a formerly boys-only school.
nfitz
Superstar
Sure it does. What kind of person would ever join a club that doesn't let in Jews or blacks in the first place? Tory was a member by the early 1980s wasn't he? When did Lyin' Brian join?
prosperegal
Senior Member
Do you mean an organization that excludes when one becomes a member or an organization that formerly excluded? I fully disclose that I am a member of several female-only groups (or was once a member of, such as Guides. Not currently involved, but might return if I ever have a daughter who becomes a Spark/Brownie/Guide). Would that be used against me if I ever run for office?
adma
Superstar
And by the time we get to the 1980s, such covenants (at least in Toronto) tended to endure more through absent-minded inertia than through active exclusion--like many an obsolete "by-law" regarding street horses or cattle or what have you. To the point where once discovered, it was more often than not an instant matter of "oopsie, we gotta fix this pronto"...
nfitz
Superstar
I think there's a big difference between a golf course that didn't until recently let in blacks or Jews ... and the Girl Guides.
(not that I've had any indication that the Rosedale Golf Club has ever admitted a black member).
But perhaps you know things about the Girl Guides that I don't ...
typezed
Active Member
Has Tory said anything about this news of his heritage? Maybe he was hardly aware of it. (Sort of like Downton Abbey, where the American side of the family is partly Jewish, but it was a fact never recognized on the show as long as I was watching it.) I have no problem believing that the Torys would be as close to activist in that milieu as you can get, whether their ties outside the blue-bloods were acknowleged or not.
If we are going to get exercised about the new mayor's golfing history, I'd recommend we instead focus on this: He has publicly offered advice that one of the best ways to get ahead in business (for women in this instance, but probably applies to anyone) is to take up golf. He has spent his life golfing at one of the most exclusive clubs in the country, with a membership that includes presidents and directors of our most powerful companies. Hasn't he been both admitting and remaining oblivious to his tremendous privilege with these statements? Isn't he acknowleging that success often grows from membership in closed networks? Those of us who can only duff around public courses behind goofballs with a cooler of Bud in the back of the cart might not obtain such advantage from golfing.
If we are going to get exercised about the new mayor's golfing history, I'd recommend we instead focus on this: He has publicly offered advice that one of the best ways to get ahead in business (for women in this instance, but probably applies to anyone) is to take up golf. He has spent his life golfing at one of the most exclusive clubs in the country, with a membership that includes presidents and directors of our most powerful companies. Hasn't he been both admitting and remaining oblivious to his tremendous privilege with these statements? Isn't he acknowleging that success often grows from membership in closed networks? Those of us who can only duff around public courses behind goofballs with a cooler of Bud in the back of the cart might not obtain such advantage from golfing.
picard102
Senior Member
I'd love to see some polls on who actually cares what some golf club used to do. Bet the number is staggeringly low.
And he and his father worked to get the rules changed.
And he and his father worked to get the rules changed.
Cooper
Senior Member
Bingo!
prosperegal
Senior Member
Some people (including me), will take that as being part of "leaning in." I *STILL* don't understand why some people object to it so much. My dad is not only an immigrant from Hong Kong, but did not grow up with any privilege at all. If all he (and his family) did was to sit around and complain, I'm not sure he would have even made it to Canada, let alone be able to provide me (I am an only child) with a very "typical" 1980s/1990s suburban upbringing. He went to university and graduate school on bursaries and scholarships, and when he started working, he had to learn A LOT about the corporate world. Think about it, people. He's non-white and has an accent. And guess what? He learned. Along with many people of his generation, both here in Canada and back in the old country. I don't think he picked up a golf club until he was in his late 20s and probably only saw them in movies/TV/print until he entered the corporate world a few years before. As for me, I can't play for my life (despite a few lessons when I was in my 20s), but at least I've done it and can tag along and attempt to swing (don't worry, I won't kill anyone).
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The funny thing of course is that technically he would be barred from joining the club - just goes to show the rules are kind of meaningless by the time he got to be a member.
prosperegal
To be fair, a lot of the stereotypes around Asians tend to lean on the positive side nowadays - we have it *relatively* easy.
AoD
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typezed
Active Member
Well, I for one don't object so much. It's just a sign of Tory's tone-deaf Romneyesque qualities. Canada always has been a place where there's opportunity for people of varied background to get ahead. That very much includes first-generation immigrants, who have their own networks of elites and rungs on the ladder. But very of few of us have the benefit of being able to chat up the presidents of the banks on the first tee. And it will stay that way.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Lets not forget that some of the worlds top golf clubs are still exclusive, and still restrict females and people of colour. Only in recent times have these restrictions started being ignored or eliminated altogether. Clubs have never been big on social inclusion, and their tight membership has ensured that many kept this tradition around for as long as possible.
I mean, even Tiger Woods was not allowed to become a member of some clubs due to his skin colour, as recently as the 90's. It wasn't until the 1960's that the PGA opened the tour up to people who were not caucasian. Augusta National, one of the finest courses in the USA only repealed their policy in the 90's.
It's not like someone with money, seeking a good club back in the 80's really had much of a choice than to join a club that excluded people based on their race or sex. It was the norm at the time.
I mean, even Tiger Woods was not allowed to become a member of some clubs due to his skin colour, as recently as the 90's. It wasn't until the 1960's that the PGA opened the tour up to people who were not caucasian. Augusta National, one of the finest courses in the USA only repealed their policy in the 90's.
It's not like someone with money, seeking a good club back in the 80's really had much of a choice than to join a club that excluded people based on their race or sex. It was the norm at the time.