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London Rapid Transit (In-Design)

tmlittle said:
This is absolutely the kind of thinking we need approaching the 2030s for what the next step to push for is. Especially in terms of being like, regional Ontario cities have had a big population influx, lots of it sprawl, and how can rapid transit happen in that situation. In Waterloo Region, Kitchener and Waterloo have both sprawled out pretty much to their municipal boundaries and a lot of development is shifting to small towns. I think development of proper regional systems would be good - you can see cases like Simcoe LINX, but it's totally egregious there isn't more of a regional system around London, given its size and significance.
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I agree 100%, but one important correction- London is not a regional Ontario city.

If the London metro became a regional municipality then you would have some politicians that would care more about the greater good of the area as a whole. With just a single tier, councilors care more about super local issues in just their ward so they get reelected again. They're more concerned in fixing a sidewalk crack on some random street or getting a new baseball diamond in their ward so they have something to show they did to their constituents. They're not going to really care what happens at the other end of town and if that takes money away from their concerns, they may vote against it.

Sure Toronto is a single city too but it's all urbanized and was an amalgamation of metro Toronto so there's some history about working together. London has some urban wards, many suburban and even a few rural wards which makes collaboration difficult. Also with 14 councilors for a city of 420k people vs 25 for Toronto (Thanks Douggie!), the councilors here are very concerned with the little things.
-Hamilton has cities around it so there is more cooperation in making it stand out vs the surrounding municipalities. London has... just London :p

To get something like this built you'd need a upper agency like Metrolinx to step in because London isn't going to do this themselves, let alone think of anything similar to this.

I'm sill amazed BRT got approved... its half assed for sure, but it's progress!
 
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It's kind of rich hearing Torontonians talk about a regional transit service for London. This is the city that has had commuter rail for half a century and has hundreds of thousands of people heading into the city everyday on transit outside it's borders and yet they don't get a plug nickel in terms of fare integration.

Yes, London should have a GO London type service to serve the tens of thousands of commuters coming into the city every day. Perhaps they would be able to afford it if GO wasn't so completely Toronto focused. If that was the case then there would be commuter buses running from Strathroy, St.Thomas, Ingersol, and Woodstock everyday as opposed to a single train to Toronto that takes 4 hours. Alas, the Toronto mandarins can't get their heads around the fact nobody could possibly be commuting to anywhere but Toronto.
 
ssiguy2 said:
It's kind of rich hearing Torontonians talk about a regional transit service for London. This is the city that has had commuter rail for half a century and has hundreds of thousands of people heading into the city everyday on transit outside it's borders and yet they don't get a plug nickel in terms of fare integration.
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I lived in London for a few years and now am in Northern ON.
Toronto does not want fare intergration. They would lose too much money.

ssiguy2 said:
Yes, London should have a GO London type service to serve the tens of thousands of commuters coming into the city every day. Perhaps they would be able to afford it if GO wasn't so completely Toronto focused. If that was the case then there would be commuter buses running from Strathroy, St.Thomas, Ingersol, and Woodstock everyday as opposed to a single train to Toronto that takes 4 hours. Alas, the Toronto mandarins can't get their heads around the fact nobody could possibly be commuting to anywhere but Toronto.
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It would be nice to see GO buses used to various places in the area.The problem is, sadly, the GO service, just like the provincial government is Toronto centric.
 
It would be very beneficial if Queen's Park remembered that GO stands for Government of ONTARIO and not Gov't of Toronto. QP needs a friendly reminder that most Ontarians do NOT live in the GTA.

I can't wait for Ottawa commuter rail to start. Wouldn't it be great to have a single train leaving Ottawa for Toronto that takes 10 hours. It would be ideal for all those commuters coming in to Toronto from Ottawa everyday. Mind you, I have heard that some locals actually commute to Ottawa {much like London & Windsor} but I think it's just a nasty rumour.
 
ssiguy2 said:
It would be very beneficial if Queen's Park remembered that GO stands for Government of ONTARIO and not Gov't of Toronto. QP needs a friendly reminder that most Ontarians do NOT live in the GTA.

I can't wait for Ottawa commuter rail to start. Wouldn't it be great to have a single train leaving Ottawa for Toronto that takes 10 hours. It would be ideal for all those commuters coming in to Toronto from Ottawa everyday. Mind you, I have heard that some locals actually commute to Ottawa {much like London & Windsor} but I think it's just a nasty rumour.
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Ontario Population in 2021: 14,223,942
GTHA Population in 2021: 7,281,694

That's 51% of Ontario's population, so yes the majority of the population does live in the GTHA.

This is before we address the fact that GO doesn't serve the GTHA, but instead serves the GGHA, which has an even higher population.
 
ssiguy2 said:
It would be very beneficial if Queen's Park remembered that GO stands for Government of ONTARIO and not Gov't of Toronto. QP needs a friendly reminder that most Ontarians do NOT live in the GTA.
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  1. The best place for commuter rail is in Toronto and surrounding areas. Other areas like Ottawa and London don't need (and shouldn't have) commuter rail.
  2. I agree that a provincially funded bus service across southern Ontario should have been implemented yesterday.
ssiguy2 said:
I can't wait for Ottawa commuter rail to start. Wouldn't it be great to have a single train leaving Ottawa for Toronto that takes 10 hours. It would be ideal for all those commuters coming in to Toronto from Ottawa everyday. Mind you, I have heard that some locals actually commute to Ottawa {much like London & Windsor} but I think it's just a nasty rumour.
Click to expand...
3. LOL
 
ssiguy2 said:
I can't wait for Ottawa commuter rail to start. Wouldn't it be great to have a single train leaving Ottawa for Toronto that takes 10 hours.
Click to expand...
y-yeah, me too.

Ui1CnoZ.jpg
 
ssiguy2 said:
It's kind of rich hearing Torontonians talk about a regional transit service for London. This is the city that has had commuter rail for half a century and has hundreds of thousands of people heading into the city everyday on transit outside it's borders and yet they don't get a plug nickel in terms of fare integration.

Yes, London should have a GO London type service to serve the tens of thousands of commuters coming into the city every day. Perhaps they would be able to afford it if GO wasn't so completely Toronto focused. If that was the case then there would be commuter buses running from Strathroy, St.Thomas, Ingersol, and Woodstock everyday as opposed to a single train to Toronto that takes 4 hours. Alas, the Toronto mandarins can't get their heads around the fact nobody could possibly be commuting to anywhere but Toronto.
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of cost, it's political will. We definitely should have more regional transit service centered around London, Hamilton, Kitchener, etc.

Before Ford announced all the billion dollar TTC transit expansions around Toronto, I said it's not that it's too costly, it's political will. On this forum the response was no way it's too costly. It's happening and we may get more announced within the next couple years (Sheppard).

It's best for Ontario and Canada if we have better intercity transit and more regional transit. This PC government may be best chance for this to happen if there is awareness and pressure for it.
 
DirectionNorth said:
  1. The best place for commuter rail is in Toronto and surrounding areas. Other areas like Ottawa and London don't need (and shouldn't have) commuter rail.
  2. I agree that a provincially funded bus service across southern Ontario should have been implemented yesterday.

3. LOL
Click to expand...

If there is one city outside the GH that could support commuter rail, it's London.

London, unlike Ottawa, has no urban freeways so there is no fast way to get across the city or downtown. From Strathroy to London, it's at least 25 minutes just to get to the city little alone downtown grinding thru Oxford Street traffic which takes up to another 20 minutes on a good day. Meanwhile even the slow VIA trains make the journey downtown to downtown in 20 minutes. They could make a stop at Wonderland for a quick transfer to Western.

St.Thomas also is connected from downtown to downtown on the old London-Port Stanley railway that is almost unused as a freight corridor. It is only one track but that would be fine for a commuter rail system. It beats taking Wellington which sees almost 50,000 vehicles a day. What's more, it goes right up against the London Health Sciences Centre...............SWO biggest hospital.

From the east, there is the VIA corridor from Dorchester, Ingersol, and Woodstock although that maybe more problematic with the busier VIA and freight traffic.
Coming from the north from Stratford and St.Mary's would not really be optional, as GO is quickly finding out, the route is too slow.

Small battery or hydrogen EMUs would be ideal for such services or even tram-trains. London has some of the worst traffic in the country and by far Ontario's worst outside rush-hours making a commuter rail service infinitely faster than driving. London's VIA's station {unlike Ottawa} is also right downtown and is a block from the BRT and every single bus { 18 regular routes and 22 including express and Fanshawe/Western season ones} going into the city making transfers a painless affair.
 
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Haljackey said:
I agree 100%, but one important correction- London is not a regional Ontario city.

If the London metro became a regional municipality then you would have some politicians that would care more about the greater good of the area as a whole. With just a single tier, councilors care more about super local issues in just their ward so they get reelected again. They're more concerned in fixing a sidewalk crack on some random street or getting a new baseball diamond in their ward so they have something to show they did to their constituents. They're not going to really care what happens at the other end of town and if that takes money away from their concerns, they may vote against it.

Sure Toronto is a single city too but it's all urbanized and was an amalgamation of metro Toronto so there's some history about working together. London has some urban wards, many suburban and even a few rural wards which makes collaboration difficult. Also with 14 councilors for a city of 420k people vs 25 for Toronto (Thanks Douggie!), the councilors here are very concerned with the little things.
-Hamilton has cities around it so there is more cooperation in making it stand out vs the surrounding municipalities. London has... just London :p

To get something like this built you'd need a upper agency like Metrolinx to step in because London isn't going to do this themselves, let alone think of anything similar to this.

I'm sill amazed BRT got approved... its half assed for sure, but it's progress!
Click to expand...
Given that Metrolinx is basically the provincial transit operator, I see no reason why they can't or shouldn't get more involved in planning, delivering, etc. transit in other Ontario cities. I know its current mandate is GTHA, but given that it is running service to KW and Barrie, perhaps it makes sense to have a provincial transit agency. Especially as we realize that transit is essential part of building functional societies and not just a frill. It seems like the whole Overton window is pro-transit now.
 
ssiguy2 said:
If there is one city outside the GH that could support commuter rail, it's London.

London, unlike Ottawa, has no urban freeways so there is no fast way to get across the city or downtown. From Strathroy to London, it's at least 25 minutes just to get to the city little alone downtown grinding thru Oxford Street traffic which takes up to another 20 minutes on a good day. Meanwhile even the slow VIA trains make the journey downtown to downtown in 20 minutes. They could make a stop at Wonderland for a quick transfer to Western.

St.Thomas also is connected from downtown to downtown on the old London-Port Stanley railway that is almost unused as a freight corridor. It is only one track but that would be fine for a commuter rail system. It beats taking Wellington which sees almost 50,000 vehicles a day. What's more, it goes right up against the London Health Sciences Centre...............SWO biggest hospital.

From the east, there is the VIA corridor from Dorchester, Ingersol, and Woodstock although that maybe more problematic with the busier VIA and freight traffic.
Coming from the north from Stratford and St.Mary's would not really be optional, as GO is quickly finding out, the route is too slow.

Small battery or hydrogen EMUs would be ideal for such services or even tram-trains. London has some of the worst traffic in the country and by far Ontario's worst outside rush-hours making a commuter rail service infinitely faster than driving. London's VIA's station {unlike Ottawa} is also right downtown and is a block from the BRT and every single bus { 18 regular routes and 22 including express and Fanshawe/Western season ones} going into the city making transfers a painless affair.
Click to expand...
I suspect London could go very far with BRT. Not to say rail shouldn't be planned for, but Ottawa built a very successful BRT system to serve a much larger city. Rail won't be able to reasonably provide broad coverage for commuters.
 
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