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Life for the Lister Block?

Jonny5 said:
There is merit to trying, and it's great this building was saved from death row, after 10 years of squabbling, but many didn't escape death row during the same period, the Tivoli theatre for one. The old Royal Connought has taken the Lister block's place on death row and the question now is will anyone bother to save it?
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And when it comes to stuff of a highrise/office-building scale, the more quixotic case of Westinghouse

old_westinghouse_hamilton_office.jpg
 
Re: unimaginative - I had no idea K-W had million-resident aspirations...!

mclancer said:
They could have saved the building and use it as the base of a new office or condo tower?
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One of the difficulties facing the redevelopment of old buildings in Hamilton is the condo market there is considerably different than in Toronto. The idea of turning places like the Connaught into condos would be a no-brainer in Toronto but in Hamilton the market for condos in a historic building right on King St is limited.

In a weird way some pockets of downtown Hamilton are stuck in a no-man's-land of too urban and not urban enough at the same time. Because of how the downtown is built there are large swaths that have limited walking-access to everyday services and or others where alking-access is there but the question is do you want to walk in those areas...?...not because they're unsafe, but because they're just not that nice. But the potential is there for those willing...

Plus, the market is also considerably less affluent. If you've got 250 000$ to burn buying a house in the Hammer is definitely within your reach. 300 000$ will keep you in the old city and 350 000$ will get you a place off Locke St, close to work if you work downtown, close to the highway if you don't, with all the benefits of hipster urban living and a backyard to boot.
 
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Hipster Duck said:
If this was Toronto, it would've been facadectomied to build the latest Peter Clewes box. Good for Hamilton!
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It's neighbour, the Thomas Bldg, is being 'facadectomied' as we speak. They meticulously removed/catalogied each stone block over the past year or so and is being restored to (what I believe is to be) a Retirement Residence:

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(photos by me)
 
CanadianNational said:
Fantastic! Congratulations and applause for Hamilton. It looks wonderful.

I used to walk by this building on my way to see a movie at The Tivoli. This part of downtown was quite busy in the '70's, but - despite all efforts - was really in decline for some time. Seeing this restored really cheers me up.
I hope downtown Hamilton gets more of this treatment, as it has a lot of really spectacular architectural stock.
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And here's what the Tiv looks like today (literally taken 10mins ago):

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Jonny5 said:
Some of the bad rap is deserved. The Hamilton municipal government was appallingly bad for decades. While some recent initiatives have shown promise they are mostly just on the books and not actually being implemented. The stadium debacle shows there are still major governance issues. The city's debt is huge and much worse are the hidden infrastructure and pension liabilities. They are still slaves to plans from the past (like the TTC) where projects proposed in the 60s sit on the books with old cranks blocking any updated visions. The post-amalgamtion mix is a sprawling mess of dense urban areas, cul-de-sac suburbs and huge rural areas. There are hundreds of people who live in Hamilton but are only a 5 minute drive to the centre of Cambridge! There is a lot of land along rural Highways being gobbled up for the worst suburban sprawl I have ever seen.

EDIT: Look at the new sprawl extending from the village of Freelton. There is nothing in this area except houses. There are no businesses at all of any kind! You have to drive at least 20 minutes away to buy anything. But when you have a city desperate for development fee income this is what you get. Here's another example. Sprawl plunked down in a tiny rural hamlet. But hey, it has a roundabout! How progressive.

There is merit to trying, and it's great this building was saved from death row, after 10 years of squabbling, but many didn't escape death row during the same period, the Tivoli theatre for one. The old Royal Connought has taken the Lister block's place on death row and the question now is will anyone bother to save it?
Click to expand...

That's a great point. Hamilton is three municipalities in one. You might have some great urban politicans. But then you have the suburbs that carry a lot of weight. Assuming that Dundas votes closer to urban Hamilton, that still leaves Stoney Creek, Ancaster, Waterdown and the fringes of Hamilton Mountain voting for their interests, which don't necessarily mean downtown. The inner suburbs (Hamilton Mountain, Stoney Creek) can often be more aligned to those of the exurban/rural areas than the city itself.

The Harris consolidations made no sense, even if they followed old county boundaries. What does Lindsay have in common with Coboconk? Wallaceburg with Ridgetown? Carp with Orleans?

Hamilton should have been consolidated smarter. Hamilton-Wentworth might have worked (but even then, downtown and transit were neglected, how about those trolleybuses, eh?) but Glanbrook should have joined Haldimand, Freelton should have joined Puslinch Township, (old) Caledon should have joined Dufferin County, Victoria County should have been split in two, not consolidated into one. Ops Township and Lindsay and then Fenelon Falls with all else; Lindsay is not Kawartha.
 
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Ridiculous Hamilton Development Requirements

Interesting discussion City of Hamilton vs Development!
Check out some points made as to why Developers have such a hard time getting their projects started in Hamilton:

If you're foolish enough to go to the City and go through the proper process to renovate your building, you unleash an absolute fustercluck of fees and regulations, many of which are utterly ridiculous.

I'm not even talking about architectural drawings and engineering studies, which are at least defensible on the grounds of ensuring the building is safe. I mean:

-Site-specific zoning application and verifications fees may run in the tens of thousands of dollars.

-You need to pay the city 1% of the value of any work done above $18,500.

-Your building could be 150 years old, but it probably violates the setback requirement in the Zoning By-Law. That means you need to apply for permission and pay a fee for your building to be where it already is.

-Intensification in the building's use may trigger a cash-in-lieu-of-parklands fee, which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars. Also, it cannot be used to improve a nearby existing park but will instead go entirely to subsidizing the cost of building new parks on suburban greenfields.

-You have to apply for a variance for any use not explicitly allowed on your property under the Zoning By-Law.

-You must pay tens of thousands of dollars in development charges, even though the infrastructure your building will use is already built and paid for.

-You may have to file an encroachment application and pay an investigation fee for any part of your building that encroaches on public property - like, say, an awning that provides people on the sidewalk in front of your building with shade and cover from the elements.

-You had better ensure you have space to provide the mandatory number of parking spots for your building's use and floor space, or else pay tens of thousands of dollars in fees.
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from Ryan McGreal at RaiseTheHammer.org
 
Meh, that sort of stuff isn't unique to Hamilton.

Some of those requirements seem unnecessary - the 1% levy, the expensive fees - and sure do seem like they would stifle innovation.

But others, not so much. Cash in lieu of parkland for intensification, zoning by-law variance requirements, encroachment, parking, even the setback and infrastructure stuff could be very easily abused by developers. Particularly the density and the zoning variance. That's the whole point of zoning - to control how lands are used in reference to the other lands around it.

I'm not suggesting that the whoel process is easy or hunky-dory but it's easy to get all up in arms about requirements when giving it a 30-second think makes it pretty evident why some of these rules are needed. The costs are onerous, probably too onerous, but when you're up against deep-pocketed developers sometimes they need to be.

In that article, the hostel opened (in a relatively residential area) 1) without a license, and 2) contravening the uses set out for the class of property in the zoning by-law.

And they're pissed about getting shut down? Come on.
 
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^ Wow. DC83, your pic breaks my heart. Thanks for posting, though. Thanks too, JasonParis - it's great to see the auditorium is more or less intact and in use. Some serious crumblage, though.

It makes me wish I could win the lottery, zip right down there and restore it.
 
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Amazing how much better the place looks after it's been cleaned out.

Any news on the Royal Connaught Hotel? I hope they manage to fix it up before it falls victim to arson or decay.
 
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