King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[DSC]

Where was it it said that this is likely to happen as you're alluding to? Is this to be similar to the red light cameras?


On another note, talking to my sister who lives near King and Jarvis, she said that having the stops after the lights is a huge detriment. Often, the first street car takes so long to load, unload, there is a back up of streetcars that are stuck behind the light. And they can and will not anybody off. So you could be waiting a few traffic light cycles just to get off adding to the total commute times. Anybody transferring from Queen as well has to also walk very far adding to the inconvenience

I also live near King & Jarvis and must say I think that the far-side stops actually work far better but this is the wrong way to look at these things. We all have our personal experiences and need to step back and look at real comprehensive data. Take a look at Steve Munro's analyses (and more are coming). Also, who 'transfers from Queen" to King in the KSP area - apart from the distance it is not a 'legal' transfer.

 

[nfitz]

On another note, talking to my sister who lives near King and Jarvis, she said that having the stops after the lights is a huge detriment. Often, the first street car takes so long to load, unload, there is a back up of streetcars that are stuck behind the light. And they can and will not anybody off.

Odd, I've taken to sitting at the back of the streetcar, to see how many people are running the red lights (very few actually) and I haven't as a rule seen streetcars backing up. If anything has been better.

Though Jarvis is right at the start of the thing. I suppose if they are going to back up anywhere westbound there, it's going to be there. But they shouldn't be backing up for the rest of the scheme.

So you could be waiting a few traffic light cycles just to get off adding to the total commute times.

A few? Most I've ever sat is one. And with the improved travel times, it's still faster.

Anybody transferring from Queen as well has to also walk very far adding to the inconvenience

Not sure how that's any difference to before the pilot. Given how successful King has been, they should do Queen as well!

 

[W. K. Lis]

The problem maybe because we allow right-turns on red traffic signals (unless otherwise signed). Drivers are supposed to come to a full stop and then after stopping then they can turn right.

In Montréal and New York City, and in Europe, there are no right-turns of red traffic signals, period. See link. In some states, such as New York State, North Carolina, and California, a right turn on red is prohibited when a red arrow is displayed.

 

[Aldebaran]

... now where did I put that sarcasm button?

I apologize, I did not catch on... hope I didn't offend you.

I just really detest the silly old "us versus them" stance, and I mistakenly thought you were engaging in it.
Have a nice evening.

 

[duper]

PS - I checked. Fred's web page says nothing about the pilot.

I guess Fred's not there either.

 

[steveintoronto]

Where was it it said that this is likely to happen as you're alluding to? Is this to be similar to the red light cameras?

On another note, talking to my sister who lives near King and Jarvis, she said that having the stops after the lights is a huge detriment. Often, the first street car takes so long to load, unload, there is a back up of streetcars that are stuck behind the light. And they can and will not anybody off. So you could be waiting a few traffic light cycles just to get off adding to the total commute times. Anybody transferring from Queen as well has to also walk very far adding to the inconvenience

Until more sophisticated priority and signalling is enabled, shuffling the deck won't make the game any better than the small increment it already has.

 

[goleafsgo_chris]

I dont really get why streetcars on the other side of the light are a part of this anyway. How does it help? It seems to me that it would slow the streetcars down (they have to stop potentially at a red light then stop again, whereas before 1 stop was possible although not guaranteed). Also it is causing huge north-south traffic because dumbass cars follow the streetcars through the light and get stuck in the intersection. Note that this happens even at intersections where cars are ALLOWED to go straight through like john street, because the streetcar still stops there.

 

[innsertnamehere]

its a probability - loading times are consistent, wait times at a red are not. Statistically, loading before an intersection is more likely to cause the streetcar to miss a green than it is to use up time during a red. Far side stops are actually faster on average, even if it may not seem like it. This is actually the most misunderstood part of the pilot I think, many people on twitter are confused by far side boarding, even though it has been on the spadina line for 20 years now.

 

[SunriseChampion]

If one is confused by far side boarding, perhaps one needs a chaperone for outings. I don't mean to be a dick (I honestly can't help it) but what's confusing about spotting the location of a transit stop? Is this a symptom of people's love of fondling their mobile phones every 30s?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If one is confused by far side boarding, perhaps one needs a chaperone for outings. I don't mean to be a dick (I honestly can't help it) but what's confusing about spotting the location of a transit stop? Is this a symptom of people's love of fondling their mobile phones every 30s?

No. It’s because the design is terrible. At King/Bathurst, the bus shelter for the near side stop is still there. So is the electronic next bus display. The only thing indicating it’s not in service is a very wordy piece of paper taped to a poll that’s easy to miss. Last time I was there, more than half the people were waiting at the near side stop.

 

[SunriseChampion]

For a year?! Bloody hell, who the f......? Some employee of the month, no doubt.
It's a year....for some that's semi-permanence, least you could do is make it look like it's supposed to work.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The results are in from Streetsblog USA (link)'s
The Best Urban Street Transformation of 2017 Is…

But first, the contestants. See link.

Albuquerque: Central Avenue

Albuquerque held a kickoff ceremony for this nine-mile bus rapid transit project late last month, after nearly a decade of planning and a lot of political jousting.

Bus riders on Albuquerque’s main drag speed along in center-running transit lanes, with a fast boarding process thanks to off-board payment and sheltered waiting areas that are level with the floor of the bus. Frequent service will begin next year.

The city also revised its zoning code to support transit-oriented development along the line. Mayor Richard Berry, a Republican, lead the project through some heated political battles, including a pair of lawsuits, and ultimately succeeded.

Cleveland: Detroit-Superior Bridge

We’ve been hard on some of Cleveland’s previous bike planning efforts. But this year, the city showed it can do bike infrastructure well. Cleveland converted a whole outer lane of its Detroit Superior Bridge — which was a nightmare for cyclists — into a bright green protected bike lane.

The project was collaborative, including significant help from the regional planning agency, NOACA, as well as Ohio DOT. It demonstrates a clear evolution at all three agencies.

Bike Cleveland says that prior to this project, the bridge was consistently reported to be one of the most dangerous places to bike in the city. The bridge still has some drawbacks — only one side is protected, and it still deposits cyclists into some extremely intimidating intersections. But those locations will eventually include bike signals — another Cleveland first.

Toronto: King Street

We can’t give Toronto enough credit for showing how simple it can be to improve transit service with its King Street project. The trick is to get cars out of the way.

The one-year pilot project made King Street, with its 65,000 streetcar trips, a much faster street for transit by limiting cars to local access only. Using inexpensive low-cost materials, the city was able to dramatically improve streetcar travel times for only $1.5 million.

Streetcar trips were maddeningly slow when transit riders were bogged down in private car traffic. But when the pilot launched a few weeks ago, it immediately shaved five to 13 minutes off streetcar journeys along the 1.6-mile stretch. The reception from riders has been overwhelmingly positive, and the Toronto Star has already insisted the changes should be made permanent.

St. Paul: Jackson Street

St. Paul built this sidewalk-level, all-ages bike path through its downtown on Jackson Street. It goes right past the Minnesota state capitol.

The nine-block path is part of St. Paul’s Capital City Bikeway, a system of on-street bike lanes that connect to off-street trails. The $16.5 million project involved significant construction, including utility relocation.

Austin: 3rd Street

Austin completed another inspiring bike project on 3rd Street. The red bike lane is protected by curbs and parking.

This project is the final link in a contiguous, five-mile “all ages” bike route through downtown Austin. It’s the type of street improvement that has helped Austin make tremendous progress in improving bike safety over the last few years.

Halifax: Argyle and Grafton

Halifax, Nova Scotia, made the final with the transformation of two downtown commercial streets into streets that prioritize pedestrians over motor vehicles. These blocks now have no curbs, improving accessibility and allowing people to use the entirety of the street. Motor vehicles are allowed, but drivers have to go carefully and proceed at a walking pace.

This is a crowded downtown commercial area, and the new freedom of movement for people on foot should make it even more of a draw. An explanatory video from the city, however, does say that pedestrians are still expected to yield to drivers.

The project involved a complete resurfacing with “argyle” stones. All on-street parking was removed to give businesses bigger patio spaces. The streets operate as a public plaza.

The winner:
Argyle and Grafton in Halifax

For Halifax, the key to making these two downtown commercial streets work better for people was removing the curbs.

Argyle and Grafton were rebuilt as “shared spaces” that allow pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists to mix while prioritizing people on foot. The arrangement uses visual cues to get drivers to slow down and proceed at a walking pace.

The net effect is to give pedestrians free rein. On Grafton and Argyle, people can cross the street wherever they choose. While drivers are still allowed, parking was eliminated to make more room for foot traffic, street furniture, and event space.​

 

[steveintoronto]

The results are in from Streetsblog USA (link)'s
The Best Urban Street Transformation of 2017 Is…
[...]

All very nice, but the topic surmise should make it clear that the King Project isn't a pedestrian mall at all, it's "king-and-queen-streetcar-transit-mall-priority-measures".

*Transit* Mall. I see only one example of streetcars/trams/trolleys in the pics and descriptions posted. And they have "504" on them.

Are you suggesting that streetcars be done away with on King?

 

[micheal_can]

All very nice, but the topic surmise should make it clear that the King Project isn't a pedestrian mall at all, it's "king-and-queen-streetcar-transit-mall-priority-measures".

*Transit* Mall. I see only one example of streetcars/trams/trolleys in the pics and descriptions posted. And they have "504" on them.

Are you suggesting that streetcars be done away with on King?

A true transit mall has no cars on it anywhere.

 

[Towered]

Seeing how wonderfully this project is working out, it should be replicated on all streetcar lines.