ADRM
Senior Member
Tabloids gonna tabloid.
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mdrejhon
Senior Member
And the obligatory PressReader link.
While I roll my eyes on the immature MEME-like tabloid cover page, and the "TORY TICKETS" publicity props -- there is a valid point to analyzing the restaurant revenues -- reporting 20-30% loss among multiple restaurants. Reading between the lines of the crap, is some nuggets to pay attention to (but corroborating with other reputable sources of research too, such as MONERIS, etc).
I think this is just first-week disruptions (people avoiding area because of uncertainty of project) -- and arrival of uncomfortably-cold weather -- so sustained later losses may actually be far less than 20-30% -- hopefully probably closer to 10% loss or less if any loss actually exists.
I do not think the entire percentage may necessarily be the pilot, but it merits close monitoring and quick action. Also, limo & Mercedes drivers might carry higher-tipping restaurant goers, and the streetcar/taxi riding crowds may be lower-tippers, so there might be underlying meritworthy patterns that needs to be analyzed (tipping change asymmetric to total revenue change etc) as part of this PILOT project.
Nonteheless, any actual widespread revenue loss (even 5%), measured by things like MONERIS and reputable surveying, would be bad. Adaptations will be needed (even before next summer) to urbanize the road -- to compensate for the lost car traffic by greatly making it much more attractive to pedestrian traffic.
If a widespread, consistent restaurant business loss sustains, then immediate compensation measures like urbanization enhancements needs to be expedited for Christmas (e.g. festive patio displays on the curb lane, like illuminated christmas trees, that are also windrow snow-plow friendly).
The Toronto Entertainment District BIA (and other orgs) may have a role to play here, helped along by the City/Works. There is a lot that can be done to fill the areas of concern -- and pronto, too.
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ADRM
Senior Member
Not to dismiss the point entirely, because of course there may be something there, but the data is almost irrelevant without knowing more about it. What businesses does that data cover? Do they regularly see a dip in revenues this time of year? Are these trends in-line with what these businesses have seen more broadly?
Without knowing the baselines data, it's impossible to draw conclusions about cause and effect. Based on what's reported, it's a logical possibility that the pilot has improved business along this stretch (i.e. if the regular loss seen in this period is 35% and this year it was 30%). I'm of course not saying that this is the case, just pointing out that there are key differences between no data, some data, bad data, good data, and non-contextual data.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Yes, agreed, that's why I updated/edited my post to mention "MONERIS", "reputable sources", "(if there is) actual widespread revenue loss".
This should at least, flag city works to pay attention to see if there's any partial truth (e.g. 7% loss that sustains) and expedite compensatory measures like illuminated christmas trees (in curb lane areas reserved for next summer's patios) and extra BIA-style enhancements to attract more pedestrians to compensate for lost car business.
This should at least, flag city works to pay attention to see if there's any partial truth (e.g. 7% loss that sustains) and expedite compensatory measures like illuminated christmas trees (in curb lane areas reserved for next summer's patios) and extra BIA-style enhancements to attract more pedestrians to compensate for lost car business.
I think its nuts to consider this at all. Its been a week. Way too early to tell what's what.
We heard the same cries of doom and gloom regarding the Bloor St. bike lanes. Fortunately, and not surprisingly, the Moneris data did not support the wailing and gnashing of teeth. I expect the same situation will happen on King St.
As @pstogios points out, how many people actually drive to restaurants on King St. and park in front? I've never done it. I don't know anyone who has. People in my building walk, Uber or take TTC if they're going to eat on King.
As @pstogios points out, how many people actually drive to restaurants on King St. and park in front? I've never done it. I don't know anyone who has. People in my building walk, Uber or take TTC if they're going to eat on King.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Do these restaurants along King Street have a high volume of take-out orders from people who drive?
torman404
New Member
I can't speak for west of University, but other than Biagio (at Jarvis, where the average age of a customer is probably north of 60) I can't think of any place along King that would routinely have customers park out front. Most live/work in the area, go to George Brown, or arrive by transit.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
If Doug Ford is so upset over the transit mall and is looking for a new job, maybe he should submit his résumé for the CEO position at the TTC.
They'll file it under "G" after laughing out loud.
They'll file it under "G" after laughing out loud.
nfitz
Superstar
coopEng
Active Member
I've also seen this sign on York Street (aimed at northbound traffic) just south of Front Street - trying to get the word out in areas around King St. and on a major road into downtown.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
One month could be trend enough to check for early canary indicators, compare year-over-year, etc, and do appropriate pedestrian-attracting countermeasures, given you know.... Christmas
I imagine they're already on it already.
MetroMan
Senior Member
Well - the Sun have spoken
I'm not going to read that cat litter liner but those who have said that they don't quote a single restaurant owner.
I live on King and walk it every day. While the street looks quieter because there aren't any cars on the road, the sidewalk traffic is about the same. Restaurants were busy during lunch hour as they always have been.
Aside from the layout and lack of enforcement, a big mistep was starting the pilot during the winter. This should have started right after TIFF. The busy sidewalks, entertainment and patios would have given Toronto a better feel for how a permanent transit and pedestrian mall would be.
I hope that the Mayor and City Council don't cave into the pressure and end it early before it's gotten a real shot. If anything, while Doug Ford will be crying about dead businesses on King, the reality will be out for all to see during the Spring/Summer just before the election.
MetroMan
Senior Member
Those signs were at either end of the pilot from the beginning although I believe they've been installing others throughout the middle.
But signage and information aren't really the problem. I've been noticing a "trick" that some taxi drivers are doing. They turn on their right turn signal right before the intersection, get in the turn lane, slow down, look around for police then speed through the intersection. One cabbie got caught doing that by a mounted police officer. The cop whistled at him and he sped off anyway. I'm assuming the cop took down his license place rather than gallop along King in pursuit.
steveintoronto
Superstar
What's truly curious about that is the *inference* (by colour and layout) that this is a provincial highway sign (technically, it is, as is the offence). That streetcar icon at top looks remarkably like 'The Crown'.
Somehow I see this as ratcheting up the intention to a realization that the present signs just aren't working well enough. I was just at University, Bay and King two hours back. Cars were drifting straight through the signs.
One guy got it, after going through them, pulled a U on King back through University, then did a U on the east side across King, almost taking out pedestrians legally crossing University as he turned right up University...into the wrong lane.
Yikes...
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