King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[Northern Light]

I was assuming you mean replacing the outdoor paper signs at bus shelters with lcd screens.

Yes.

We already have digital adds in small number of shelters.

Vancouver used to have these at bus stops:

From: https://images.dailyhive.com/20191205113901/translink-rapidbus-3.jpg

This is one from Paris:

Source: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Passenger_information_system#Media/File:SIEL_-_Lignes_42_et_88.JPG

This is Portland, Oregon:

Source: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Passenger_information_system#Media/File:Portland_Mall_digital_sign.jpg

 

[Tunafish13]

Yes.

We already have digital adds in small number of shelters.

Vancouver used to have these at bus stops:

View attachment 431919
From: https://images.dailyhive.com/20191205113901/translink-rapidbus-3.jpg

This is one from Paris:

View attachment 431920

Source: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Passenger_information_system#Media/File:SIEL_-_Lignes_42_et_88.JPG

This is Portland, Oregon:

View attachment 431921
Source: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Passenger_information_system#Media/File:Portland_Mall_digital_sign.jpg

We even already have those at some subway stations. Kennedy and Victoria Park come to mind.

 

[Northern Light]

We even already have those at some subway stations. Kennedy and Victoria Park come to mind.

Right, but the object should be to have info at every single surface stop.

I mean we don't even put regular old printed schedules at most stops anymore; but even if we did, that doesn't tell you that due to an accident, there will be no streetcars at this stop in the next 2 hours. Where a real-time LCD display allows for that.

 

[Jonny5]

Saw a line of at least ten cars in a row pass through Yonge on King this evening at about 5:20. Happened at other intersections too. The no-left turn rules at some streets were ignored too. The eastbound streetcar I was on had to wait almost two minutes for someone to get a break in westbound traffic to turn left at Frederick, which has a posted no left until 6:00. King is a mess. Enforcement is zero.

 

[reaperexpress]

Saw a line of at least ten cars in a row pass through Yonge on King this evening at about 5:20. Happened at other intersections too. The no-left turn rules at some streets were ignored too. The eastbound streetcar I was on had to wait almost two minutes for someone to get a break in westbound traffic to turn left at Frederick, which has a posted no left until 6:00. King is a mess. Enforcement is zero.

I've been wondering about setting up the signals so that they sit in red during the east-west phase, until a streetcar/bus is detected (about 14 seconds away). That way you could use red light cameras to automatically ticket the people who drive straight through. Last I checked, Ontario doesn't permit automatic enforcement for movement restrictions (e.g. no straight through), but they do obviously permit red light cameras.

This setup would require a bicycle signal head to be added next to the pedestrian signal so bikes aren't affected by this change. And at night when taxis are allowed the signals would operate as they do today, with normal greens.

 

[drum118]

Yes.

We already have digital adds in small number of shelters.

Vancouver used to have these at bus stops:

View attachment 431919
From: https://images.dailyhive.com/20191205113901/translink-rapidbus-3.jpg

This is one from Paris:

View attachment 431920

Source: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Passenger_information_system#Media/File:SIEL_-_Lignes_42_et_88.JPG

This is Portland, Oregon:

View attachment 431921
Source: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Passenger_information_system#Media/File:Portland_Mall_digital_sign.jpg

It was one of the first things I saw back in 2012 on the 3 month Europe tour and wonder then why TTC was not doing this as well other transit system. This signs told you when the next 2-3 vehicles would be at your stop as well other routes that may use the same stop.

Even trams, buses, U-bahn/Metro/Subway, S-bahn had not only them, but would tell you the time to the next 4 stations as well the end of the line. On top of that, it would not only display connecting lines at the various stops. Once the next station was to come up, the screen would not only display those routes, but also the time the next 2 vehicles would arrive at that station.

Putting these next vehicle signs up is a must during rebuilding King as well all stops system wide that are heavy use or have poor headway.

What I saw on our 2022 trips was the same as 2012 with better technology and better display.

 

[dusk]

There's definitely a lack of signage and even "permanence" on our surface routes. The streetcar network should feel a lot more substantial than it is both in terms of signage but also priority signalling, right of way, etc wherever possible. I'm hopeful we'll get there.

 

[superelevation]

Right, but the object should be to have info at every single surface stop.

I mean we don't even put regular old printed schedules at most stops anymore; but even if we did, that doesn't tell you that due to an accident, there will be no streetcars at this stop in the next 2 hours. Where a real-time LCD display allows for that.

They don't even need to be at every stop - but like King and Bay? It's ridiculous how little infrastructure is there

 

[DSC]

They don't even need to be at every stop - but like King and Bay? It's ridiculous how little infrastructure is there

Though I certainly would like better (and accurate!) info at transit stops. I would suggest that the need for "next bus' displays is FAR greater on routes with less frequent service. King has (or is supposed to have) very frequent service and at many times of the day one can usually see the next few streetcars in the distance.

 

[Northern Light]

Though I certainly would like better (and accurate!) info at transit stops. I would suggest that the need for "next bus' displays is FAR greater on routes with less frequent service. King has (or is supposed to have) very frequent service and at many times of the day one can usually see the next few streetcars in the distance.

The biggest thing about LCD displays at stops isn't the 'next bus' component; though, that certainly can be helpful; its the ability to show diversions, 'stop not in service', and real-time major delays (due to accident at Sherbourne, All King Cars are diverting to Queen). That way you don't stand there waiting for a streetcar that will never come.

Likewise any major service gap. I had a 20M wait for the 506 a few weeks ago in Little India.

I prefer that every stop have this tech in the fullness of time, it really isn't that expensive.

Its a six of one, 1/2 dozen of he other question of whether to prioritize stops more prone, as per schedule, to long gaps between vehicles, vs those stops where the greatest number of passengers would benefit.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Though I certainly would like better (and accurate!) info at transit stops. I would suggest that the need for "next bus' displays is FAR greater on routes with less frequent service. King has (or is supposed to have) very frequent service and at many times of the day one can usually see the next few streetcars in the distance.

Should be "alleged" frequent service. Sometimes, correction usually, not able to see any following vehicles on the frequent service routes. So would like to know how many minutes to be able to choose to get a chocolate bar (2m), coffee (5m) or full course meal (60m).

 

[turbanplanner]

Though I certainly would like better (and accurate!) info at transit stops. I would suggest that the need for "next bus' displays is FAR greater on routes with less frequent service. King has (or is supposed to have) very frequent service and at many times of the day one can usually see the next few streetcars in the distance.

Personally my first boarding in the morning is a bus. When I use the nextbus app on my phone it's never accurate. It'll say 2-3 mins for 5-8 mins due to traffic and lights.

I think part of the reason they give us so little info (and removed schedules) is because drivers were getting harassed for those wrong predictions.

 

[nfitz]

Personally my first boarding in the morning is a bus. When I use the nextbus app on my phone it's never accurate. It'll say 2-3 mins for 5-8 mins due to traffic and lights.

I think part of the reason they give us so little info (and removed schedules) is because drivers were getting harassed for those wrong predictions.

The detailed schedules are all online - I think there removal from stops is more a labour/cost issue than anything.

I don't think Nextbus predictions that off, most of the time. It takes current location and history of how that route has been doing at that time of day into factor (predictions fall apart somewhat at the beginning of a new schedule period, until the dataset is big enough - and a new period did begin a couple of days ago (for weekday runs).

Which stop is problematic? I find predictions are worse, if you are not far after the route has left the terminal on frequent routes, as it just doesn't know when the vehicle is actually going to leave.

 

[DSC]

The detailed schedules are all online - I think there removal from stops is more a labour/cost issue than anything.

I don't think Nextbus predictions that off, most of the time. It takes current location and history of how that route has been doing at that time of day into factor (predictions fall apart somewhat at the beginning of a new schedule period, until the dataset is big enough - and a new period did begin a couple of days ago (for weekday runs).

Which stop is problematic? I find predictions are worse, if you are not far after the route has left the terminal on frequent routes, as it just doesn't know when the vehicle is actually going to leave.

.... it would know when a vehicle was about to start its run IF the TTC made any effort to mange headways. As shown in many of Steve Munro's studies, they can't even start their vehicles on time so it is hardly surprising they are not 'on schedule' further along a route.

 

[JasonParis]

The 504 has been back to running on King through Corktown since Friday now, yet many stops are still instructing passengers that it is not in service. The amount of uncoordination is becoming epically bad. There was a sign at John St too until recently that the stop wasn't in use (and that was from the TIFF closure almost three weeks earlier).

Responding to myself here, but an update is that the TTC's social media folks have responded to me twice about this (another time just this morning), but still haven't fixed the signage along the route telling riders to walk up to Queen.