King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[steveintoronto]

I do however consistently see more bunching on my end near Bathurst and further west at Dufferin. Maybe they're doing more short turns in the pilot section?

This has always been a bug-a-boo for Steve Munro. I suspect he might write an updated analysis on exactly that and how it's weighing the stats just published.

 

[innsertnamehere]

514 helps with gaps in the central portion that you would see on the outer stretches. A lot of times the streetcars sit at the loop at either end for a few minutes, waiting to be injected into a service gap.

 

[mdrejhon]

Does bunching still occur?

Yes, a minor amount still does. I had an approximately 5-minute empty-wait towards 2 approaching streetcars ~530pm after a company Xmas party just beyond Spadina, to get back to King St. Speed was relatively good for peaky-peak period, probably saved about 5 minutes over usual King traffic for that often-problematic Spadina-to-Bay hop, fighting into rush hour traffic.

(Normally I would take Spadina, but I wanted to test the #KingStreetPilot)

 

[steveintoronto]

514 helps with gaps in the central portion that you would see on the outer stretches. A lot of times the streetcars sit at the loop at either end for a few minutes, waiting to be injected into a service gap.

It certainly helps, which is what it was intended to do (as well as serve new communities either end) but without sufficient numbers of streetcars to handle the crush load, something else must be done to prevent the 'Korridor' from choking on its own success. Some redirected Queen cars just might do the trick, but problems might be moved elsewhere, not cured.

It might be that the City is banking on BBD filling it's newest 'quota' to slowly increment performance up on the corridor. I'm not too sure that's a safe bet.

 

[steveintoronto]

Some redirected Queen cars just might do the trick, but problems might be moved elsewhere, not cured.

The TTC already has figures on how the bus shuttles along Queen performed during the last construction blitz on Queen.

Anyone care to proffer on the sensibility or not of that being instituted again, and the Queen cars in part or in whole redirected along King, Don River to Queensway? It would not go down well with some, but it would certainly be able to prove the viability of the Korridor given sufficient cars. Perhaps this combined with the priority signal improvement would make a very clear point? Kingston Road 502, 503 could also be part of an improvement if extended along King to Dufferin or Roncy. How much of a loss the 502 would be to Queen is questionable.

Addendum:
BlogTO has a rare example lately of an originally written article, and it's a blockbuster, making BMO's point and others':
Lauren O'Neil
Posted an hour ago

Overcrowding turns nasty on the King streetcar line

Streetcars have been moving faster and more reliably along King St. over the past month, according to newly-released data from the City of Toronto.

Rush hour travel times are, on average, between 40 seconds and 2.6 minutes shorter than they were before the launch of the King Street Pilot Project, and, despite what you might hear from some motorists, driving times have increased by less than a minute on neighbouring streets.

As someone who rides the line twice a day, I can tell you that all of the above rings true.

The streetcars do proceed more quickly through the downtown core without so many motorists clogging up the road, and there aren't as many clumps of five streetcars appearing at once after 40 minutes of crickets.

But that doesn't necessarily mean passengers are getting to work any faster. Far from it.

Toronto's busiest streetcar line has long been known for how crowded it can get. An estimated 65,000 people ride the King streetcar every single weekday, many of them around the same two periods of time.

Riders have been complaining about how jam-packed the King cars are even more than usual since the start of the pilot project last month, and now that winter is really, really here, the problem is coming to a head.

Hundreds of people were left waiting in the blistering cold along King Street Tuesday morning as streetcar upon streetcar soared past with no room for anyone else to get on.

At least 80 people were waiting at King and Strachan this morning as seven full sardine cans TTC vehicles came by in a row, some of them literally pushing each other out of the way for a single spot on the streetcar stairs.

I waited approximately 45 minutes at that stop until I could squeeze onto one of the new, longer streetcars, where things only got worse in terms of human behaviour.

I haven't taken a ride on the 504 in weeks during which at least one passenger didn't push or yell at someone else for trying to come aboard.

Whether it's the weather, a lack of cabs that will drive near King, or all the positive attention the Pilot Project has brought to this already busy transit route, the overcrowding problem is getting worse. I mean, what good is a fast streetcar if you can never actually catch one?

The TTC is aware of the problem, and has been taking action to alleviate some of the congestion – but there's little the transit agency can do without more streetcars.

Fingers crossed that nobody seriously hurts another passenger – or freezes while waiting at a stop – before Bombardier finally delivers some.

http://www.blogto.com/city/2017/12/overcrowding-ttc-king-streetcar-toronto/

What should be proof of an overarching success can be turned against this project by those who don't wish it.

*Even on a short-term basis*, the TTC must provide more streetcars along the route, and deploy boots on the ground to dispatch them at what amounts to a measured interval to demonstrate how this should and could work.

A rush has to be put onto the Priority Signals too. And done yesterday. The status-quo is like putting a champion steed in a race and not feeding them.

Even from a supporter, beware of this:
"Whether it's the weather, a lack of cabs that will drive near King"....*lack of cabs*....THAT will be seized upon unless the TTC can provide adequate capacity.

 

[gabe]

I had a meeting this morning on King, i took a cab instead. i saw my facebook feed full of people late for work because of full streetcars.

 

[DSC]

I had a meeting this morning on King, i took a cab instead. i saw my facebook feed full of people late for work because of full streetcars.

Maybe because of the cold more people were taking streetcars today and the older cars are VERY unreliable in the cold weather so they may not have had as many out as usual.

 

[gabe]

Maybe because of the cold more people were taking streetcars today and the older cars are VERY unreliable in the cold weather so they may not have had as many out as usual.

That's what i was thinking. Might be better next week with the milder temperatures.

Transit riders also need to plan a head this time of year. Snowy conditions = delays no matter how many streets cars or buses there is.

 

[micheal_can]

Maybe because of the cold more people were taking streetcars today and the older cars are VERY unreliable in the cold weather so they may not have had as many out as usual.

That's what i was thinking. Might be better next week with the milder temperatures.

Transit riders also need to plan a head this time of year. Snowy conditions = delays no matter how many streets cars or buses there is.

How soon till all the new trains arrive and they can get rid of the old ones?

 

[DSC]

How soon till all the new trains arrive and they can get rid of the old ones?

2019, if you pay attention around here you can hear about the arival of each one, we seem o be at 56 of 204. A bit like watching paint dry.

 

[W. K. Lis]

That's what i was thinking. Might be better next week with the milder temperatures.

Transit riders also need to plan a head this time of year. Snowy conditions = delays no matter how many streets cars or buses there is.

Even worse because of the automobiles with either just summer tires or bald tires, and without a full load of people (seats for 5, but only occupied by 1).

See link.

Vertical Loading
Increasing the amount of vertical loading (weight) on the tire increases traction, but in a non-linear way. That is to say that as we increase loading on a tire, it will gain traction, but not in exact multiples. If a tire has “X” amount of traction with 400 pounds on it, the traction will be less than double as we apply 800 pounds of loading to it. The amount of traction will be less than 2 times X.

 

[TheKingEast]

In terms of transit metrics, sure travel time is a great metric, but if the real-world travel time including wait time has increased because passengers have to wait for multiple streetcars to pass, then the overall time savings may not be true for the average person. What we CAN confirm is that the streetcars are operating a little quicker and a little more reliably. However, if the induced demand has also increased, then real-world time-savings for people may be no better. Personally, I think travel times were an issue before, but I always felt that capacity was an even bigger issue as I often saw people having to wait for multiple streetcars during the peak hours between Dufferin and Yonge. Based on my experience I don't think this has changed very much. I'm almost questioning what this will mean if the line is completely outfitted with TSP and new streetcars and we STILL have capacity issues. Me may have to convert Queen St and other corridors into streetcar dedicated streets to disperse the load.

Bingo. Travel time is a bit faster. Wait times are equal or longer. So what's the point really? I see so many crowds at the stop and streetcars passing by that can barely accommodate 5 extra people.

Good post. Travel times mean nothing if you can't even get onto the bloody streetcar.

I've started using Queen st.

 

[mdrejhon]

So what's the point really?

More grand total number of people moved per hour, downtown-wide (Queen, King, etc, combined).

But, they definitely still need to optimize King to keep up with demand, if possible.

 

[Avenue]

However, if the induced demand has also increased, then real-world time-savings for people may be no better.

Unless you're claiming people are now doing random trips just for leisure, the induced demand argument makes no sense. Public transit is the most efficient way of moving people, if you're inducing demand for it, you're likely stealing people from uber/taxi and personal vehicles.

 

[KevinT]

I guess that all those thousands of people being better served by transit simply don't count for anything.

I think the primary audience for these radio shows is people in their cars, I doubt there's many AM radios carried by streetcar riders.