Jarvis Streetscape Improvements Environmental Assessment

[Jupiter]

I think one of the biggest improvements that could be made on Jarvis would be to put in a centre median and boulevard the sidewalks and reintroduce trees to the streetscape. It would instantly, and easily, improve the pedestrian environment.. though at the expense of car traffic. IMO though, the bottleneck that occurs on Jarvis south of Queen leads me to believe that traffic might flow better if it was 2 lanes in each direction for its entire length.

In addition, by putting a median in with left turn lanes, it would keep the traffic flowing, as ultimately, illegal turns or not, people line up to turn left off Jarvis blocking two lanes instead of what would only be one if the median had turn lanes in both directions.

 

[Chuck]

Another idea: make Jarvis one way northbound, and Sherbourne one way southbound. Reduce both streets down to 3 lanes of traffic and widen the sidewalks. Remember too that one way streets do not kill pedestrian traffic.

As an alternative, keep the five lanes of Jarvis, but make three of them one way for cars, and use the remaining two for a streetcar ROW. Or, introduce a streetcar ROW on both streets, consisting of one track in one direction on each street.

 

[Joe]

This could be a great opportunity to make Toronto's first physically-seperated bikelanes...

Since trees and bikelanes seem to be popular sentiments about what the New Jarvis should have - how about having bikelanes on each side of Jarvis seperated from car traffic by a green island with trees.

Good for trees, good for cyclists, and pedestrians will be protect from cars too!

 

[Hipster Duck]

I support the idea of bike lanes as per the ones Joe described. I support the one-way street with extended sidewalks that Chuck describes. I even support removing a lane and putting a sculpted median in between. Basically, anything would be an improvement over what we have now.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Huge turnout tonight... bike lanes aren't officially being considered it seems due to "lack of space", which was a big disappointment to most in the crowd. They're going for the 5th Alternative, which is the combined solutions, where one solution will be used at any point along the corridor, but not at the same time, again, due to ROW restrictions.
There were some interesting comments from the crowd, the usual fear of traffic, etc, but altogether a pretty good kick off to what hopefully will be a good process.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Jarvis might lose lane in bid to recapture former glory
Street serves as route to downtown, say some critics of plan

Cameron Strandberg, National Post
Published: Saturday, March 22, 2008

Jarvis Street -- the city's once-wealthy grand avenue that now serves as a ''mini-highway'' to downtown -- is about to lose a lane, and in the process become something more like the neighbourhood it once was.

"It's time the city takes back Jarvis and turns it into a neighbourhood street," Toronto Centre councillor Kyle Rae told a public meeting on Wednesday night to unveil the city's plans for Jarvis. "It doesn't need to be a freeway in downtown Toronto."

The main change recommended by the City of Toronto's Jarvis Street Streetscape Improvement Environmental Assessment is removal of the centre lane from a five-lane section of Jarvis, which runs 12 blocks between Bloor and Richmond streets. Space would be opened for some combination of expanded boulevards, lane-dividing mediums, raised planters, greenery, accent paving, benches, pedestrian gathering spots, street art, new light fixtures and curbside parking cut-outs, all designed to complement Jarvis's early 20th century heritage.

At the end of the 19th century, 4.5-metre grass boulevards and towering maples buffered Edwardian mansions inhabited by some of Toronto's wealthiest people. Today, walking down Jarvis "sounds like you've got a sea of traffic right in your ear. It's right on top of you," said Ric Tremaine, proprietor of the Gloucester Square Inns, a boutique hotel in the former Cawthra House.

"No one comes [to the neighbourhood] to shop, to socialize, to do anything. There's nothing here! People just drive through," said Ida Angelini, owner of Angelini's Restaurant and Lounge at 504 Jarvis St., the historic Gooderham Mansion.

Jarvis's turn for the worse began in the 1940s, when the street's two lanes were widened to four and the street's greenery was ploughed under, Mr. Tremaine said.

At Wednesday's meeting, speaker after speaker got up to express just how difficult it was to have community and commerce when a five-lane "mini-highway" -- six lanes between Isabella and Charles streets -- cuts through everything.

"The biggest change to the area is absolutely going to be the removal of the centre lane," said Penelope Palmer of transportation services, the rejuvenation project's manager.

Ms. Palmer said ''the extra lane there is not being fully utilized," and that a 2005 City of Toronto traffic assessment found no significant increase of congestion on Jarvis or such surrounding streets as Sherbourne and Church.

But some critics are skeptical about how fewer lanes will affect drive times. "I need to be able to drive my car," said one man who questioned Ms. Palmer at the open house.

Jarvis Street is a major traffic artery. Its Richmond Street intersection is a transfer point for commuters travelling from and to the Don Valley and Gardiner expressways; at the northern end, Jarvis funnels traffic from Mount Pleasant Road to downtown.

"Those cars need to go somewhere," said Vincent Yan, the owner of Fireplace Authentic Chinese Cuisine at 340 Jarvis St. People who want to make Jarvis better by reducing traffic are dreamers, he said.

"They do not understand reality. You can only change the general look on Jarvis, but you cannot bring critical change," he said. The cars have to come first, he stressed.

Others at the meeting were concerned the plan has no bike lanes.

A final plan for Jarvis Street will be released in October. It would then go to city council for approval--a requirement that is by no means guaranteed -- with construction to begin next year.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The cars have to come first, he stressed.

Considering the proportion of the ROW vehicular lanes take up currently and in any possible future configuration, the cars already came first.

AoD

 

[junctionist]

From the sounds of those comments, if the Spadina expressway were proposed today these people would have been thrilled. After all, the cars need to come first, and those that care about the vitality and beauty of old neighbourhoods are dreamers detached from reality.

The better city will not put cars first.

 

[Chuck]

That article is pointless. Cars don't destroy neighbourhoods, but land use does. At a consistent 6 lanes in width, Avenue Road is a full 20% wider than Jarvis. Despite having an extra lane, and despite being located in a substantially less dense neighbourhood, the commercial strip on Avenue Road between Bloor and Davenport is successful, in demand, and has plenty of pedestrians. Jarvis has none of that.

The entire Jarvis corridor needs to be spruced up in order for it to be more successful. For starters, bring in new residents that can actually afford "to shop, to socialize, to do anything" along that street. (quoted directly from the article). Clean up the image so that people actually feel safe after dark. Build new student residences for Ryerson to bring life to the area after dark.

Anyone who thinks that Jarvis's problems result from it's role as a major artery is delusional. In fact, I think that Jarvis's artery status is its saving grace - that brings tens of thousands of people into the area that would otherwise not be there, and it makes Jarvis a short commute away for hundreds of thousands of people to the north. Isolating Jarvis from the rest of the city by severely restricting auto traffic would be the final straw, and would place Jarvis in St. James Town territory.

 

[junctionist]

Anyone who thinks that Jarvis's problems result from it's role as a major artery is delusional. In fact, I think that Jarvis's artery status is its saving grace - that brings tens of thousands of people into the area that would otherwise not be there, and it makes Jarvis a short commute away for hundreds of thousands of people to the north. Isolating Jarvis from the rest of the city by severely restricting auto traffic would be the final straw, and would place Jarvis in St. James Town territory.

People want to use Jarvis to get to other places that aren't similar to Jarvis (such as downtown office jobs or the occasional event). A commuter route is a connection to another place, and as such the surroundings are of little importance to the commuter. When the look of the neighbourhood was sacrificed so that outsiders could drive to somewhere outside of the neighbourhood easier, the desirability dropped. I think it's delusional to think that this plan will make Jarvis as desirable as St. Jamestown.

 

[Chuck]

Well the main point is that unless the east side of downtown is cleaned up, none of this will matter anyway. Just narrowing Jarvis won't really do anything except make it harder for people to get downtown. I do support narrowing Jarvis, but it would then have to be made one way, and would require a new one way street in the opposite direction like Sherbourne.

 

[Hipster Duck]

That article is pointless. Cars don't destroy neighbourhoods, but land use does.

That almost sounds like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" shtick. Cutting an expressway or a high-speed thoroughfare through a neighbourhood usually kills that neighbourhood.

At a consistent 6 lanes in width, Avenue Road is a full 20% wider than Jarvis. Despite having an extra lane, and despite being located in a substantially less dense neighbourhood, the commercial strip on Avenue Road between Bloor and Davenport is successful, in demand, and has plenty of pedestrians. Jarvis has none of that.

I wouldn't exactly say that the Avenue road corridor is a paragon of success. There are a handful of stores and restaurants, but it does effectively draw the boundaries of Yorkville to the point that the vibrant commercial neighbourhood that should spill over from the east
is held back at Avenue road like water behind a dam.

The entire Jarvis corridor needs to be spruced up in order for it to be more successful. For starters, bring in new residents that can actually afford "to shop, to socialize, to do anything" along that street. (quoted directly from the article).

I'm not advocating that Jarvis retain the skid row neighbourhood feel that it has, but I don't think that wealth has anything to do with neighbourhood vitality. For example, the stretch of Queen between Sherbourne and Parliament is remarkably vibrant even though most of the shops cater to the very low income neighbourhood that flanks it on all sides. The same goes for the stretch of Queen through Parkdale, or Bloor between Lansdowne and Dufferin.

Anyone who thinks that Jarvis's problems result from it's role as a major artery is delusional. In fact, I think that Jarvis's artery status is its saving grace - that brings tens of thousands of people into the area that would otherwise not be there, and it makes Jarvis a short commute away for hundreds of thousands of people to the north.

Consider Queen street west from Bathurst to Gladstone. It's narrow, hard to get to, nearly impossible to park and extremely slow and frustrating to drive down. Even so, it is packed with thousands of people from far afield who use Queen street as their shopping destination. Certainly the denizens of Parkdale cannot afford to regularly shop at Jacflash or at the new Fred Perry store on the corner of Dovercourt. I don't think accessibility by car matters. I don't hear merchants of $500 jeans on Queen clamouring for more on-street parking space.

Isolating Jarvis from the rest of the city by severely restricting auto traffic would be the final straw, and would place Jarvis in St. James Town territory.

St. Jamestown is, for what it's worth, remarkably easy to get to by car. It's one advanced left onto Parliament from the Bloor Viaduct exit off the DVP and once you get there, the whole place is littered with parking lots. A little further south, people pay many hundreds of thousands of dollars to live among the tight maze of alleys in Cabbagetown.

 

[Chuck]

Alright, fine! I just like being able to drive downtown in 10 minutes or less the one time out of ten that I decide not to take the subway. Regardless, Jarvis is a bit of a vacuum today, and I still don't think that just narrowing it will solve its problems.

There, you got an honest answer out of me. Hipster Duck, those are some excellent points by the way, and remind me why I am thankfully not an urban planner.

 

[Northern Light]

The Meeting

I attended the meeting as well.

The turnout was huge! They opened up the second floor atrium level so that people could see the presentation (there were at least twice as many people as seats) (over 150 for sure)

There were a few speakers who were on about traffic flow, but only 3-4 perhaps out of 20+

The overwheling consenus was between good start and why stop at taking 1 lane out.

On a personal level I would love to see Jarvis down to just 2 lanes (1 each way) with wider boulevards and bike lanes.

However, I'll take a 1-lane reduction, its pretty amazing the traffic engineers are conceeding that.

There's no way they're going to go for a 60% capacity reduction.

I think the best option is the one moving forward (from among those the staff presented).

I just wish they would bury the Hydro wires.

The big push for cyclists needs to be on Bloor/Danforth and on Yonge (City staff have openly mused in the press about narrowing Yonge)

****

Keep your eye out for this; next Public Works and Infrastructure meeting the proposed bike lanes for 2008 come forward.

Among those I hear are coming:

Pharmacy (to be narrowed to 1 lane each way)
Annette (narrowed)
Wellesley (narrowed)

And quite a few others.

Most of those narrowings will only be painted lines, but changes to road width may be made where reconstruction is also scheduled.

 

[CDL.TO]

Alright, fine! I just like being able to drive downtown in 10 minutes or less the one time out of ten that I decide not to take the subway. Regardless, Jarvis is a bit of a vacuum today, and I still don't think that just narrowing it will solve its problems.

There, you got an honest answer out of me. Hipster Duck, those are some excellent points by the way, and remind me why I am thankfully not an urban planner.

LOL! That's pretty funny.

As Northern Light has pointed out, the city's traffic engineers (who no one has ever accused of being illogically anti-car) are not opposed to the plan. With permanant left-turn lanes traffic should continue to flow well and this will eliminate the bottleneck at Queen. Jarvis plays an important role as an arterial and provides an alternative to Yonge and Church, and I don't think this plan puts that role in any sort of danger.

I don't see any need for bike lanes as Sherbourne is only a block away. I'd rather see Church get a Sherbourne-style treatment with bike lanes than Jarvis anyway.