Pep'rJack
Active Member
Because he's an ass, and hardly operates in the spirit of Jacobs:
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=5249
There have got to be literally hundreds of people in TO more worthy of the task.
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Jane's Walk - Remembering the ideas of Jane Jacobs
- Thread starter CDL.TO
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Because he's an ass, and hardly operates in the spirit of Jacobs:
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=5249
There have got to be literally hundreds of people in TO more worthy of the task.
ShonTron
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Maybe you should have gone. Is this because you are against his ideas about Clubland that you should make such a generalized insult?
I went on Adam Vaughan's walk and it was very well done. Over 200 showed up for that one, and he explained the issues and opportunities of Alexandria Park very well (where he seemed quite popular with the locals). Adam's ideas, while controversal, are often interesting, novel, and many (but not all) I agree with. Many of them are in the spirit of Jacobs.
I later went on Max Allen's walk that encompassed Grange Park and then the Club District and understood what was going on there more. I am agreeing with Adam Vaughan more on this.
JasonParis
Moderator
Adam Vaughan's family was very much connected to Stop Spadina and were extremely good friends of the Jacobs. While all his ideas may not currently be 100% Jacobsian (sp?), it's assanine (your words) to say he operates not in Jacob's spirit.
Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
I went on Adam's walk. Of the three I did that day (Regent Park, King & Spadina with Margie Zeidler and Paul Bedford, and this one), it was by far the most interesting and thought-provoking. (Esp. after Regent Park).
The only problem with the day is that the quality of speaker was uneven - some talks were mostly walking with a little bit of anecdote, while others were a bit of walking and then a half-hour lecture in the middle of the sun, with no real relation to where we'd stopped. The "hour-long" lectures ran closer to two, not that people were complaining too much. Was on my feet, in the sun, nonstop from 10 am to 5 pm. Great day.
Pep'rJack
Active Member
So what? That obviously has no bearing on his own current behaviour. David Frum is Barbara Frum's son - 'nuff said.
Completely disagree:
Can't say it any better than that. Please explain what exactly is Jacobsian in operation about baseless blanket statements aimed at entire demographics, wildly over the top accusations hurled at entirely legitimate businesses, potential abuse of authority in hassling said businesses from an elected bully pulpit, seemingly hoping to drive them clear out of business, and pandering, weasel-like, to constituents who were stupid enough to choose to live in clubland, and then complain about the obvious realities of clubland. Spadina Expressway redux, this most certainly is not.
And your own condescending snootery differs apparently not so much from Vaughan's:
But perhaps I'm just not sufficiently "subtle and refined" (your words) to appreciate Vaughan's tactics on your oh-so-downtown level.
Couldn't - trapped in Vancouver at the moment.
No. I am against his clubland stance, but it's not his stance that offends, it's his methods. His laughably overblown rhetoric re the situation down there, his unfair, petty nonsense regarding the line-ups and whatnot, and his phoney 'leadership' ostensibly emerging from an evidently astroturf-like non-uprising amongst a select local few who apparently believe, as does he, that they have the right to bully anyone they don't care for right out of 'their' downtown, are dishonest, abhorrent and completely unacceptable tactics to me.
And concerning the insult being "generalized", I completely disagree with that, as well. I don't do compartmentalization in any case. The kind of thinking that goes along the lines of, "well, he's a complete bastard in those ways, but he's pretty nice in others, so I guess it all balances out", is anathema to me. Some mooshy words on some other topics don't compensate for Vaughan's outrageous recent conduct, for me. I'll stick with Maya Angelou, thanks: "When people show you who they are, believe them, the first time." Vaughan has shown us who he is. Ignore that if you prefer.
As far as his Kensington tour goes, just how challenging is it to wax Jacobsian about the market, of all places? It practically demands such from anyone with even a bit of appreciation for urban life - it'd be weird if anyone wasn't Jacobsian in this context. And the issues surrounding Alexandra Park? Only an idiot could not see and point those out, so glaring are they, unfortunately. Glad everyone who went out enjoyed the walk, but whatever - it's not relevant to his political antics.
Vaughan is an ass, in my opinion. You step into the public arena and you take your lumps - please feel free to violently disagree. Man, who would have thought that trashing a politician would evoke such seemingly personal responses? Has he got buddies 'round here, or something? It's almost like some are feeling insulted by association.
ShonTron
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Fair enough. I think John Sewell can be stupid, an ass, and delusional to the point of insanity. That said, I think he is very qualified to run the Cabbagetown/Regent Park walk because of who he is, his knowledge, his past, and he can be brilliant in some respects. I think of John Sewell in that case as the man who wrote many good Eye articles and Shape of the City, not the twerp who ran against Mihevc and railed against St. Clair and a lot of other good things.
I usually find two things at least before I call a politican an ass. One of the biggest asses is Bob Rae - I detest him for the stuck up man that he is, for his railroading of the so-called public input of the Rae Review, his performance at the Liberal Leadership (the sulky brat). Vaughan just has the ability, in my opinion, of sticking his foot in his mouth way too often.
adma
Superstar
I was on that walk, too. Most amusing impromptu sight was some young skank in an ultra-mini coming out of a car in the alley behind District Lofts. You guessed it: upskirt cue. Perfect embodiment of what Max Allen + his minions wuz blubbering about.
My new nickname for the Club District is the Upskirt District.
ShonTron
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Margie Zeidler was on that walk too. Didn't realize it until around District Lofts. And I met the infamous Sir Novelty Fashion without realizing it? I should have made myself more visible as a UTer.
Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
Oy vey... I'm not usually one to wade point by point into these kinds of arguments, but seeing as I was actually, you know, there, I'd like to address this:
It's not hard at all to wax Jacobsian about Kensington. That's why about 80% of the talk was in Alex Park. The parts that were in Kensington focused on a couple of specific anecdotes that were news to me, and I've lived around there for years.
But you weren't there, and you don't know what the talk was about.
It didn't dwell on the problems. As you say, they're self-evident. But the solution to the Alexander Park riddle, unlike Regent Park, isn't "bulldoze it," for a few reasons. The talk was about the options that they have, and the ways the community can be revitalized with a minimum of wrecking-balls and government bail-outs.
A lot of it was regulatory, and letting the community make use of its own resources, especially in terms of land use. As I understood it, the community is a co-op, but still beholden to the TCHC. These ideas aren't all new, but they've got a pungeant new advocate in Vaughan.
Okay, so you have a beef with him. You won't be the only one, by the time his term is out. But can we at least keep the Vaughan-bashing limited to the things you see, not imagined? (Never mind the topic at hand in the thread.) Otherwise, it's just Internet flaming...
It's not hard at all to wax Jacobsian about Kensington. That's why about 80% of the talk was in Alex Park. The parts that were in Kensington focused on a couple of specific anecdotes that were news to me, and I've lived around there for years.
But you weren't there, and you don't know what the talk was about.
It didn't dwell on the problems. As you say, they're self-evident. But the solution to the Alexander Park riddle, unlike Regent Park, isn't "bulldoze it," for a few reasons. The talk was about the options that they have, and the ways the community can be revitalized with a minimum of wrecking-balls and government bail-outs.
A lot of it was regulatory, and letting the community make use of its own resources, especially in terms of land use. As I understood it, the community is a co-op, but still beholden to the TCHC. These ideas aren't all new, but they've got a pungeant new advocate in Vaughan.
Okay, so you have a beef with him. You won't be the only one, by the time his term is out. But can we at least keep the Vaughan-bashing limited to the things you see, not imagined? (Never mind the topic at hand in the thread.) Otherwise, it's just Internet flaming...
dowlingm
Senior Member
I was hoping to do three walks but only managed one.
I missed the Margaret Smith one because the time changed from 10.30 to 10 which I found out too late to get there. I got to the second St Clair West one - big props to the Dufferin-St Clair Library for putting on refreshments! I tried to make a dash for the Kensington one but got caught in traffic and made a stupid decision to take the College streetcar rather than the subway even though the subway was 2-change.
I think this was a great idea, I hope it's done next year but with more walks outside downtown/beaches and maybe spread it over the weekend. I'd do one for east Danforth but I haven't lived in the area long enough to be knowledgeable enough.
I missed the Margaret Smith one because the time changed from 10.30 to 10 which I found out too late to get there. I got to the second St Clair West one - big props to the Dufferin-St Clair Library for putting on refreshments! I tried to make a dash for the Kensington one but got caught in traffic and made a stupid decision to take the College streetcar rather than the subway even though the subway was 2-change.
I think this was a great idea, I hope it's done next year but with more walks outside downtown/beaches and maybe spread it over the weekend. I'd do one for east Danforth but I haven't lived in the area long enough to be knowledgeable enough.
ShonTron
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There was discussion at the end of Max Allen's walk that this would certainly happen next year, and that the organizers (Margie Zeidler is one, she was on that walk) would certainly look at making it a weekend thing, partly as some walks had much higher than expected attendance. I heard that Tam Goossen's Chinatown walk only had 18 people though, partly due to all the overlaps.
I'd love to go on a walk of someplace like Long Branch, North York Centre, Don Mills, Cliffside, or a whole wack of places outside the old city. But it made sense to concentrate on this area for the first year.
I'd love to go on a walk of someplace like Long Branch, North York Centre, Don Mills, Cliffside, or a whole wack of places outside the old city. But it made sense to concentrate on this area for the first year.
hardlyamathwhiz
New Member
I was on the Kensington/Alexandra Park walk as well and found it enjoyable (minus the sun burn I developed because I forgot the sun screen). And, like Sir Novelty Fashion pointed out, it was much more focused on Alexandra Park, which was great, since my only previous interaction and knowledge of that area was getting lost in its maze thinking I could use it as a short cut on my walk to work.
At the first stop in the Park, a resident from one of the units we stopped in front of came up to me to ask what was going on (I think a lot of people thought we were some kind of rally) and I told her about the walk and the other tours. She stayed and listened for a bit and seemed fascinated to learn that the area was developed in the late 60s (I think it was 1967). A nice little touch that a local resident, not just "outsiders", could learn a little something about where she lived.
I hope these tours become an annual event.
At the first stop in the Park, a resident from one of the units we stopped in front of came up to me to ask what was going on (I think a lot of people thought we were some kind of rally) and I told her about the walk and the other tours. She stayed and listened for a bit and seemed fascinated to learn that the area was developed in the late 60s (I think it was 1967). A nice little touch that a local resident, not just "outsiders", could learn a little something about where she lived.
I hope these tours become an annual event.
