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Jan. 25 Forum: Tall Buildings - Who is Planning Our City?

B

BuildTO

Guest
(Apologies if this has already been posted)

From: St. Lawrence Centre Forum <forum at pubstlc.com>

Tall Buildings: Who is Planning Our City?

free public forum
Wednesday January 25, 7:30-9:30 pm

St. Lawrence Centre for the Arts
27 Front Street East
2 blocks east of Union Station

Download: printable flyer forum.stlc.com/flyer/tall.pdf


Toronto has had no shortage of tall building controversies: the Minto towers, the ROM condo, the Sapphire tower and the East Bayfront lands to name a few. While there is agreement that Toronto must grow upward, there appears to be little agreement on where tall buildings should go and how tall is too tall. Instead, decisions are being made in the wrestling ring of public opinion, with developers, planners, councillors and citizens duking it out building by building.

The Province has responded to this vacuum proposing changes to the Ontario Municipal Board (OMB) and new powers for City Council to oversee development. Will these changes be enough to address the problems Toronto has been experiencing? How will City Council balance the interests of developers and residents? How do we ensure that tall buildings, when built, contribute to the making of a great neighbourhood? What is the appropriate role of Council, planning staff, developers, community groups and the OMB?

with
Kyle Rae: Toronto City Councillor

Tony Coombes: Principal, City Formation International

Mimi Fullerton: urban activist, Annex Residents' Association

Steve Diamond: development lawyer and Partner, McCarthy Tetrault

Ted Tyndorf: Chief Planner for the City of Toronto

Moderator: Ted Barris: freelance broadcaster and Professor of Journalism at Centennial College; author, most recently of
Behind the Glory: Canada's Role in the Allied Air War.

Co-sponsored by the St. Lawrence Centre Forum and the Toronto Society of Architects




________________________
Carolyn Langdon
STLC Forum
27 Front St. E.
Toronto M5E 1B4
(416)366-1656 x274
http://forum.stlc.com
 
Re: Jan. 25 Forum: Tall Buildings - Who is Planning Our Cit

Why do I have a feeling this will be a Nimby Jamboree?
 
Re: Jan. 25 Forum: Tall Buildings - Who is Planning Our Cit

^If it is so, could please go and report back on some of the more amusing NIMBY musings concerning tall buildings.
 
Re: Jan. 25 Forum: Tall Buildings - Who is Planning Our Cit

Thanks for the heads-up... sounds like something I might want to go to. (not because I'm a nimby!)
 
Re: Jan. 25 Forum: Tall Buildings - Who is Planning Our Cit

I'm there. I'm going to try to get ROM Condo revived.

No, no, I mean Sapphire.

10 more floors for Festival Tower.

Something.

42
 
Re: Jan. 25 Forum: Tall Buildings - Who is Planning Our Cit

I think the Planning Dept. is supposed to have a report on tall building due out pretty soon...

That being said, at least they aren't asking for FoNTRA to participate instead. Think of what the tall buildings will do to the children.

AoD
 
Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

Eye - January 5, 2006
Beyond NIMBY
BY DALE DUNCAN

Virtually everyone agrees Toronto needs to grow up, but residents' groups say planners and developers should build consensus before building condos

GROWING PAINS: The first in a series of stories on building the Toronto of tomorrow

Gail Bebee's neighbourhood is changing before her eyes. "Lands from here down to the 401 are planned for development by a big whack of people," she says, pointing south towards a defunct Canadian Tire halfway between Bayview Avenue and Leslie Street.

There's so much development going on, it's difficult for Bebee to keep track of it all: condo towers and townhomes are sprouting up like dandelions along Sheppard Avenue, the southern boundary of her Bayview Village neighbourhood. More than 7,800 residential units have been approved for development along the Sheppard corridor in the last several years. And city planners say the area will be able to absorb the population of a small town, up to 28,000 more people.

If new condos must go up, Sheppard Avenue appears to be an ideal place to put them. Toronto's newest subway line runs underneath the busy corridor, its trains and artfully tiled stations sitting half-empty, ready to welcome future rush-hour crowds. Sheppard Avenue is the type of street earmarked in the city's Official Plan for potential growth and developers are treating land along the highway as a blank slate, creating new subdivisions in the sky wherever they can.

Bebee, a member of the Bayview Village Association, understands why the area is prime for growth, but worries that it is happening too fast. Walking east along Sheppard, she points out three sites in less than half a kilometre where new residential complexes have been approved or proposed. Just north of Sheppard, we pass through the empty parking lot of a church, where two 19-storey towers, along with mid-rises six and eight storeys high, will be built. Citing concerns over increased traffic and the sheer scale of the towers, the residents' association fought the development at the Ontario Municipal Board (OMB) and lost.

Bebee's assessment of the situation is bleak. "It's like David and Goliath, except David doesn't have a slingshot," Bebee says. "Developers have high-priced lawyers who are listened to. Since I've been involved, [the OMB] hasn't turned down much in our area."

Talk to people in Rosedale, Etobicoke or the Annex and you'll hear similar concerns. Toronto is development crazy these days, and it seems as though everyone -- developers and local residents alike -- has a strong opinion on how the Toronto of tomorrow should be built. The provincial government has proposed changes intended to speed up the planning process in the New City of Toronto Act. But even if the mayor gets more power or the OMB gets less, one fact remains: the more development proposals that come forward, the more residents want to be involved.

Instead of looking to simply placate resistant residents, the challenge now facing the city is how to give citizens a voice in the process. A citywide model for consulting residents does not exist -- at least not in the way associations would like it to -- while a confusing planning process, made up of layers of bylaws and difficult-to-access information, presents an overwhelming obstacle to involvement. One million new people are expected to move to Toronto in the next 30 years. For many residents, the fight is no longer to stop development from happening, it's simply to be involved.

It's not just the city's outskirts that have been bitten by the development bug. On the narrower, grittier and more pedestrian-friendly Queen Street West just outside of downtown, similar development proposals are in the works. Plans submitted by three different developers for the area between Abell Street and the railroad tracks across from the Gladstone Hotel include at least five towers between 10 and 26 storeys high.

The local residents are mostly younger, hipper and less well-off than their North York counterparts, but their overall concerns are the same. They'd like to slow down the process so those already living in the area can be consulted and proper studies can be conducted to ensure the area's infrastructure -- its public transit, sewage system and public spaces -- can support the influx of people the buildings would bring.

"We want to invite great development," said Gladstone Hotel manager Christina Zeidler at a public meeting, "[but] this voice, us, has to be part of the process."

Examples of citizens' desire to play a role abound. Around 200 people packed a room in Rosedale last November to hear plans for a 35-storey condo proposed for Yonge and St. Clair. At the November Toronto and East York Community Council meeting, a whopping 22 agenda items dealt with development applications. Developers and concerned residents packed the room, some waiting all afternoon to make deputations on items that were never discussed due to lack of time and the overwhelming public turnout.

At first glance, these stories appear to portray classic cases of NIMBYism -- stubborn neighbourhood associations who relentlessly crusade against the evil developers and their demon high-rise condos despite the city's need to intensify and grow up in already established areas instead of growing out into farmland and greenbelts. That's the way the media spins it: angry, narrow-minded residents in one corner ready to take on the money-grabbing developers in the other.

Bitter battles have taken place, but many residents are aware that a certain amount of intensification is necessary. They're willing to support development, but have good, smart questions about how it should take place. Bebee, of the Bayview Village group, shows me the quiet edge of the family-friendly subdivision where she believes car owners from the new towers will be tempted to drive. "The city agreed to do a traffic study next spring," she says, "but the development might go ahead before it starts."

Rosedale residents expressed similar concerns after hearing plans for the 35-storey tower at the packed November meeting. "The issue was not design; it was density and traffic congestion," says Tim Reid, himself a resident of a 13-floor condo near the proposed site.

Though the developer went to great lengths to design an elegant building, right down to details such as the placement of aesthetically pleasing trees, Reid says that questions from the crowd concerning the impact the high-rise would have on traffic left the architect tongue-tied.

"He spent all his time talking about brick work and didn't have an answer to the traffic issue," says Reid. To Reid, understanding the impact of bringing more people into the community is just as important as the look of the building itself.

Along Queen West, residents say they're the voice of the market, a cross-section of the community to whom the developers may eventually sell homes. They have as much interest in seeing the development succeed as the property owners -- healthy growth will ensure a healthy neighbourhood. Their concerns go beyond problems of traffic and scale: at a community meeting organized by their local councillor, discussions centred on mixed-use buildings, affordable housing, retail space at ground level and the creation of new public parks.

Such discussions and debates are a sign of things to come. The city is committed to building in the city rather than expanding the suburbs. But as the city's chief planner, Ted Tyndorf, points out, building new homes in a sparsely populated area is a lot easier than building them in the heart of an already established community.

He compares a proposal for 350 acres of land in Morningside to development being negotiated for about 60 acres in the West Don Lands community. "It's an order of magnitude difference in terms of the attention that had to be paid there," Tyndorf says. "Come [downtown] and it's like you're stepping through the looking glass; it just gets curiouser and curiouser every time you turn up. It's only going to get more complicated. As it gets more complicated, it means more people from the community have to get involved, and more staff have to get involved; it takes longer."

If taking longer means greater citizen involvement, residents living near Queen West are all for it. They've formed a group called Active 18 and are working to bring together their own vision for the neighbourhood. This month, they'll hold a design charrette, in which business owners, citizens, artists, architects and planning professionals will work in groups to draw up their own proposals for the area.

The Toronto Society of Architects has offered to be involved and the group is planning to invite the developers as well. Developing a relationship with city planners, meeting with their local councillor and familiarizing themselves with complicated urban-planning lingo has all been part of the fun. The next step, however, may be taking on developers at the OMB -- one of the developers filed an appeal in December; the date of the hearing will be set sometime this month.

Like other groups throughout the city, Active 18 is challenging the idea that planning is strictly for professionals. Instead of being labelled NIMBYs, they'd like to be viewed as an important voice in the development of their community. If all goes well, they'll provide the city with a model for including citizens in the planning process, something our current council, awash in a city-building boom, could definitely use.
 
Re: Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

Since the other thread is a duplicate I will repost my comment here.

It will either be a productive dialogue where people are trying to make better tall buildings in the right places or a frustration release for those against tall buildings completely. I wish I shared your optimism about where this "revised OMB" and this dialogue in general is going. Moving powers out of the OMB is great in principle, but if no councillor will make decisions that go against local NIMBYs for the greater good of the city then the opportunity is lost. I am all for better buildings and a better land use plan but unless there is a place for tall buildings in the city plan (without needing to request extra density) and unless there are architectural guidelines that can be referred to then every building ever proposed will be shot down by locals and local councillors. I think the Sapphire Tower is an example of how crazy the city plan is... half a block from the tallest building in the city on a parking lot you can't put a tall building based on the city plan. Furthermore there are no CBD architectural guidelines to follow. In order for the system to work there needs to be a plan rather than reactionary bickering.
 
Re: Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

Who is Planning Our City?

Noooobody...

doll.jpg
 
Re: Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

Please. There's plenty being done. This isn't Houston.
 
Re: Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

I agree with Ed, plenty of good work is being done all around.

As citizens and consumers we can do our part by raising our standards in order for the overall quality of our buildings to improve.

I believe we are starting to get there, take for example Tridel's Verve and it's commitment to obtaining LEED status.

Anyways, I have the date down and plan on being there!

Louroz
 
Re: Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

My previous post was kind of a half-joke... but there is some truth to it. I do agree that things are getting better and that design has improved somewhat but I would like to see a lot more. I would like to see guidelines with teeth, so that developers can't appeal and build whatever monstrosity they want, whereever they want. Some examples: we need defined zones where highrises can go and where they can't. If a neighbourhood has a certain architectural character, the developer must take that into account. If a building is given a heritage designation, then developers should not be able to find some backdoor method of having it demolished. We have to find some way of ensuring quality cladding and finishes on buildings. Finally, there should be a design panel that approves projects. There is also much to do wrt other facets of public spacing... sidewalks, trees, parks, street furniture, banning chainlink fencing, banning bare concrete pillars... the list is endless...
 
Re: Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

^those which are not ridiculous (re: bare concrete pillars, chain link fences) are underway

"We have to find some way of ensuring quality cladding and finishes on buildings."

But pre-cast is a quality cladding

Finally, there should be a design panel that approves projects.

I'd rather have the market dictate design
 
Re: Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

So, are any other UTers going to show up tonight?

Don't leave me all alone with those NIMBY wolves!

Ehh, I'm a big boy now, I can take care of myself...

42
 
Re: Cover story from today's Eye (When Condos Attack!)

I'm planning to go. Is there a way to meet?
 

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