Islington Subway Station

[drum118]

Is SNC still planning on developing an office tower elsewhere now ?

Who knows??

If they still want a tower, it will be built so SNC does not have to pay for it and get it dirt cheap.

As much as TTC wants an office tower complex here, I don't see it happening at all. It would be better to use the land for taller condos than what there now and around it.

There is nothing stopping TTC from building the new bus terminal and fixing up the concourse as plan, than leave it as is.

Once MT moves to Kipling in 2013, you put up a temporary wall blocking access to the existing bus bays and tear them down. More parking space for the time be.

 

[taal]

Who knows??

If they still want a tower, it will be built so SNC does not have to pay for it and get it dirt cheap.

As much as TTC wants an office tower complex here, I don't see it happening at all. It would be better to use the land for taller condos than what there now and around it.

There is nothing stopping TTC from building the new bus terminal and fixing up the concourse as plan, than leave it as is.

Once MT moves to Kipling in 2013, you put up a temporary wall blocking access to the existing bus bays and tear them down. More parking space for the time be.

I'm not sure I agree with "It would be better to use the land ..." - generally speaking I think you'll find office use correlates most directly with transit ridership in the sense that a office complex per capita will generate a lot more transit usage (or should I say benefit from transit) compared to a residential development. This would be a great place for an office building / the start of a new office district.

 

[jwill]

The suburban centres were set up as remote office nodes in the first place, partly to take advantage of the underused "reverse commute" capacity on the subway. Still a worthy goal, I'd say.

 

[Towered]

Well it's a chicken or egg scenario really - The city could reserve the land for office development, but then it might sit empty for many years before something happens, when some condos could be built much sooner. The question is, how long would the city and the immediate neighbourhood be willing to put up with an eyesore on the off chance that at some point in the possibly distant future a developer will propose an office tower? It's better to fill it up with condos I suppose.

Wait a minute - what about the proposal to relocate the Etobicoke Civic Centre to this site??

 

[radioheadmike]

Any new updated or rumours regarding the property?

 

[drum118]

The ward councilor is still a push to get Built Toronto, to build an office tower for SNC and others.

What should happen, is built duel towers with either the lower or upper section being office and the rest condos. Nothing under 30 floors for these towers and you max the height out.

You also put in a daycare centre. This way, people can drop off their kids either going to work or leaving for work.

You also put in a 40,000 Sq Ft grocery store at the base or above it like Portland.

Some better retail than what there now.

Parking to be only 25% of all required rental and residential space.

 

[radioheadmike]

Those are good ideas. Let's hope for a grocery store.

 

[Still Waters]

High density residential will never give you the kind of ridership levels that you would get with office/commercial density. That is what happened in the Sheppard Corridor -- the ridership forecasts for the Sheppard Subway were based on primarily office development around the new stations. Instead, all of the new density has been residential. This has resulted in ridership levels that really don't support a subway, and can't attract ridership to the corridor from other locations such as Markham, which was supposed to generate fully one-third of the projected ridership for the Sheppard subway.

At Islington, ideally, I would like to see mixed use, perhaps 40% residential and 60% commercial to reinforce the existing office and residential nature of the surrounding area. The idea of a new grocery store is good -- to replace the old Dominion store that used to be at Six Points which used to provide easy access for the high density apartments at Mabelle.

 

[Dan416]

High density residential will never give you the kind of ridership levels that you would get with office/commercial density. That is what happened in the Sheppard Corridor -- the ridership forecasts for the Sheppard Subway were based on primarily office development around the new stations. Instead, all of the new density has been residential. This has resulted in ridership levels that really don't support a subway, and can't attract ridership to the corridor from other locations such as Markham, which was supposed to generate fully one-third of the projected ridership for the Sheppard subway.

At Islington, ideally, I would like to see mixed use, perhaps 40% residential and 60% commercial to reinforce the existing office and residential nature of the surrounding area. The idea of a new grocery store is good -- to replace the old Dominion store that used to be at Six Points which used to provide easy access for the high density apartments at Mabelle.

I think the ridership levels on the incomplete Sheppard subway are fine for what it is. But I don't think you can realistically expect many people from Markham coming down to take the Sheppard line for just a few stops.

Let's finish the thing first, then complain about the ridership.

 

[andrewpmk]

I think the ridership levels on the incomplete Sheppard subway are fine for what it is. But I don't think you can realistically expect many people from Markham coming down to take the Sheppard line for just a few stops.

Let's finish the thing first, then complain about the ridership.

The subway won't be useful for people in Markham until it is extended. Since the subway doesn't go east of Don Mills, it is easier for most people in Markham to take a bus to Finch/Yonge (when there is no YRT strike). When the subway is extended there will likely be bus connections to Markham at Victoria Park, Warden, Birchmount, Kennedy and Scarborough Centre which will be far more useful.

I agree though that attracting employment in North York Centre and elsewhere along Sheppard is very important for ensuring the success of the Sheppard line extension. The trouble with building residential but not commercial is that the commercial areas are often poorly served by transit and people living in condos on the subway drive to work. Whereas it is much easier for people not directly served by the subway to transfer to the subway to go to work at North York Centre (or Consumers Rd, or Scarborough Centre). We are finally starting to see more development near Sheppard/Yonge with the big Hullmark Centre development at the SE corner which includes offices, but much more office development is needed in this area.

 

[Paleo]

I think the ridership levels on the incomplete Sheppard subway are fine for what it is. But I don't think you can realistically expect many people from Markham coming down to take the Sheppard line for just a few stops.

Let's finish the thing first, then complain about the ridership.

Brilliant. Let's sink almost $6 billion (plus financing) into it and commit the hundreds of millions over the coming decades in subsidy before we ask questions about ridership.

 

[Dan416]

Brilliant. Let's sink almost $6 billion (plus financing) into it and commit the hundreds of millions over the coming decades in subsidy before we ask questions about ridership.

Better than sinking billions of dollars into Transit City which would be of marginal benefit to anyone.

 

[EnviroTO]

Better than sinking billions of dollars into Transit City which would be of marginal benefit to anyone.

By marginal you mean a benefit to a couple hundred thousand riders per day finding space on an LRT which provides reliable service at a lower operational cost per seat and which runs faster than the overcrowded buses they replace which have a hard time meeting any posted schedule.

 

[Mulder]

You can't expect condo's and office towers to line the streets the day a new Subway line opens.

I think people often forget that the Sheppard line is only 9 years old. And it can easily take that long sometimes from office tower concept to office tower completion.

 

[Dan416]

By marginal you mean a benefit to a couple hundred thousand riders per day finding space on an LRT which provides reliable service at a lower operational cost per seat and which runs faster than the overcrowded buses they replace which have a hard time meeting any posted schedule.

I see no reason to believe any TTC-built LRT would have any better on-time performance than the current TTC streetcar system.