is racism common in Toronto?

[sangcho1989]

this discussion was first started due to wanting to be aware of racism in Toronto which, former, was met by positive feedback. Everyone seemed to argue against any chance of visible racism in their city. But now, its turning into a race to see who can make the most comments about how black males look like they're about to "rob a liquor store." Is this not racism?

Sadly, and with no doubt, racism is an active practice everywhere.

 

[lordmandeep]

I do not think he was implying all black males will or want to rob a liqour store.

Its when we a group of young black males, why do we think they will.


That is the great question...

Of course we have made great strides however putting on rose coloured glasses and pretend there is no racism in Toronto is foolish.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I know that I didn't say all black males look like they're about to rob a liquor store. I've seen tonnes of white people that are the exact same, and I'd be just as afraid of them.

I was pointing out that a lot of our imported American culture depicts black people as huge gangstas that are only out to cause trouble. I think that people subconsciously just say "black people" but they really mean "black gangsters" or even just "gangsters" instead. There's not hate towards black people, just hate against gangsters.

At least I don't think there's any true racism there

 

[sangcho1989]

multiculturalism vs cultural integration.

whats the difference?

can multiculturalism operate without cultural integrations?

 

[golodhendil]

Anyone know what it's like DT?

I don't know how it's like at M and SC, and it's hard to make much meaningful comparison without some sort of quantifiable measure, but in my experience some sort of "integration" definitely exists. During first year most of my "high school ethno-group" did stick together, but over the years the friendship networks definitely branched out to other ethnicities, to the extent that many of their SO now are of different ethnicities. There are plenty of ethnocentric student groups, but at the same time there are students of different ethnicities that joined those groups (eg, West Asian in a Chinese newspaper). There are still many strongly monoethnic (generally Asian) cliques, but I have seen many examples of Asians integrating into non-Asian groups and non-Asians into Asian groups/culture.

 

[syn]

I went to UTM and you'd certainly see people of the same background spending time together. I think a lot of this has to do with things already mentioned - many of these people attended the same highschool and continued to do so, and there is simply a large south asian population on campus.

That said, many spent time with people of their own background, and really didn't care to branch out. Coming from the city where I had a diverse group of friends, I always found that really weird.

 

[prosperegal]

What I've noticed is that some older white people and non-Chinese minority immigrant groups are generally really surprised that the typical Hong Kong Canadian, whether born/raised in the country or immigrant is rather integrated (compared to other groups) to so-called mainstream/WASP society. I once worked with a South Asian girl who was really WTF with the following:

- that my parents didn't have an arranged marriage (my grandparents didn't either. The last generation to have an arranged marriage was my great-grandmother.)
- that my mom wore a white bridal gown (and very 1970s at that!!! - an older white woman was even more WTF about it - she was like "isn't wearing white like wearing black?" and "I like red. Why don't you ladies wear red here?" (we do - just not for the legal ceremony))
- that my family is Roman Catholic (she is Muslim) and have been since at least the 1920s
- that old line private schools have a lot of non-white students in the upper grades because of boarding programs.

I can understand her not knowing about the last point, but the others? Considering that she was raised in Scarborough, how could she NOT have known?

 

[jenny_zhang]

I'm not understanding what's particularly offensive about that. My Chinese relatives would probably be surprised at a Roman Catholic Chinese person.

 

[afransen]

I know that I didn't say all black males look like they're about to rob a liquor store. I've seen tonnes of white people that are the exact same, and I'd be just as afraid of them.

I was pointing out that a lot of our imported American culture depicts black people as huge gangstas that are only out to cause trouble. I think that people subconsciously just say "black people" but they really mean "black gangsters" or even just "gangsters" instead. There's not hate towards black people, just hate against gangsters.

At least I don't think there's any true racism there

I think you've hit the nail on the head. This is more about a cultural meme than race. People who associate themselves with a subculture that glorifies violence, misogyny and generally antisocial behaviour should not be surprised when others pick up on the visual cues to treat them with suspicion and wariness. Same goes for skinheads, KKK, etc.

 

[syn]

What I've noticed is that some older white people and non-Chinese minority immigrant groups are generally really surprised that the typical Hong Kong Canadian, whether born/raised in the country or immigrant is rather integrated (compared to other groups) to so-called mainstream/WASP society. I once worked with a South Asian girl who was really WTF with the following:

- that my parents didn't have an arranged marriage (my grandparents didn't either. The last generation to have an arranged marriage was my great-grandmother.)
- that my mom wore a white bridal gown (and very 1970s at that!!! - an older white woman was even more WTF about it - she was like "isn't wearing white like wearing black?" and "I like red. Why don't you ladies wear red here?" (we do - just not for the legal ceremony))
- that my family is Roman Catholic (she is Muslim) and have been since at least the 1920s
- that old line private schools have a lot of non-white students in the upper grades because of boarding programs.

I can understand her not knowing about the last point, but the others? Considering that she was raised in Scarborough, how could she NOT have known?

Some people are just that sheltered and out of touch.

 

[prosperegal]

I'm not understanding what's particularly offensive about that. My Chinese relatives would probably be surprised at a Roman Catholic Chinese person.

It's not really as offensive and it's not as surprising as you think. I went to a Catholic school from Grade 1 to Grade 5 (between 1985-1990) and there were at least five Chinese kids per grade (JK-8). The Catholic board operates Chinese language heritage classes in several schools as well (mostly Cantonese). In addition, many people in the Hong Kong legislature (at least those with high-level positions) are either Catholic or Anglican (or were educated in Catholic or Anglican schools) - This is probably because in the 1950s and 1960s, the most of the top schools in Hong Kong were Catholic.

 

[jenny_zhang]

I never said I found it surprising. I can probably see why Hong Kongers might be more inclined towards Christianity in general (the whole colonial thing). Just that I assume there's many Chinese (Mandarin, far removed from Hong Kong, such as my family) that would probably be a bit surprised as well. Personally I don't know many Christian Chinese. Although I see their churches as I drive through the city.

 

[golodhendil]

^^ I think the surprising-ness depends on one's upbringing. I'm purely guessing from her last name, but it seems that jenny's family background is from Mainland China where secularism is the official position. On the other hand Christianity has a much stronger root in HK and Macau, being European colonies, and to a smaller extent in Taiwan due to the relationship between the old KMT and various Christian denominations (Taiwan is a more religious society in general anyway). About half of the religious population in HK are Christians (~10% of the HK population), and half of that are Catholics. The former bishop and cardinal of HK was/is the middleman between the Vatican and the PRC in their attempts to normalize their relationship. Many prominent singers/actors in HK are closely affiliated with certain highly evangelical groups. Christian schools are the norm in HK and are arguably the best/better schools academically, even though a lot of the students in the schools are non-Christians / atheists who go there for their academics (as I did). Among my group of (non-Mainland) Chinese friends I am one of the only few people who isn't Christian.

*oops this was in reply to prosperegal's post

 

[Chinese Jamaican Bloke]

Christianity was in China since the 7th century

 

[Tewder]

I think racism is strong in the rest of Canada as well, but at least here in Toronto is far less overt and out in the open than in small-town Quebec. And it is just not whites here that are racists, I know of an example of where are South Asians being favoured for employment just because the recruiter himself is South Asian.

The brutal irony in your comment is in its very inherent racism against white people. Look in the mirror first before juding others, i'm just saying...